Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners m80 v3 harshness / Receiver

Kordeo. Even some Axiom detractors have given a grudging nod to the bass on the M80. Tight, articulate bass down to 36 Hz in room is impressive for a speaker in this price range.

There is of course the option of adding a sub but i'd prefer not needing one

Kordeo and Fredk,

The M80s on their own in a room do a fine job of pipe organ fundamentals to below 30 Hz. They run out of steam around 27 Hz. I'm a pipe organ (also Wurlitzer theater organ) enthusiast.

Adding a powerful subwoofer like the Axiom EP500 will bring additional impact and extension to below 20 Hz.

Regards,
Alan

Alan, I havn't actually measured the M80s to see how low they extend in my room. I did do something funky with the receiver the other day ending up with only sub output playing my Great Organ Works disk.

I was surprised how little output there was through the sub: very muffled/subdued, even with an 80 Hz crossover.

I did try switching back and forth between 2 channel and 2.1 with that disk and the sub does round out the bottom end, but the M80s really do and impressive job on their own.

I have the M80s, EP600, VP150, QS8s powered by the A1400-8. These speakers do NOT sound harsh in any way (I have a large living room carpeted with a cathedral ceiling). I agree, 100% with Alan and JC. I have a major audiophile buddy whose system is highly specialized (custom built Swiss tube amp., custom made single driver speakers, etc. <tube phono stage..he's into vinyl>) who thinks my system is terrific (a completely different philosophy from his). He's heard speakers costing 20 to 30x the cost of Axiom speakers, as JC mentioned above, and he feels that the Axioms are sometimes better than those. I think its a bit of a back handed compliment when I've read, for instance "for the cost of Axioms, they're the best way to go"..or something to that effect. The Axiom speakers are a terrific speaker on their own merit, period.

I am also a great fan of the pipe organ and the M80s work with the EP600 to create a seamless, clean, natural and well defined bass. I honestly cannot tell from which speakers the bass is being produced.

Per JC's comments, the M80s shine all the more with the more clean power you give them. However, my buddy brought over his extra Audio Zone amp (something like 5 watts / channel) and the M80s sounded terrific with it, also.

I once went over a week using my M80s w/o realizing that my EP500 sub was turned off. Playing a movie that was suppose to have some really deep rumbling bass is what finally gave it away, but for music I hadn’t even noticed and I listen to a lot of Trance and other EBM. In part it was their excellent bass response that won the M80s the starting position in my setup.

I like detailed speakers and it had come down to Paradigm, B&W, Focal and the dark horse Axiom. To me the Paradigms sounded almost the same but not as good bass. The B&W sounded a little better in the midrange smoother vocals and some acoustical music. The Focals had a light airyness for ambient music. However, overall the “accuracy” of the M80s sounded on average better across all musical genres. As a reviewer once said about the M2s “If they weren't the best at every type of music, they were the best at any type of music” which is how I feel about the M80s compared to those above and a few other.

It reminds me when I first compared my M80s on their own without a subwoofer with music material powered by the A1400-8 instead of my ususal Mark Levinson No 23.5 amplifier. Once switched over to the A1400-8, the bass quality and quantity gained was so that I had to walk back to the sub verifying that it was indeed turned off.

Alan, Shea's here in Buffalo has a fine Wurlitzer.

http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/feature0105.htm

Have you had a chance to see and listen to this fine piece? Maybe I can bring it with me for Sept. 11th.

There are a few exceptions, like recordings with pipe organs; that's when the EP500 shines and is evident when it's not on. I have also had to get up and walk around the room, particurlarly the center channel, to confirm that I was listening in stereo and not a surround mode; the imaging can be that good.

Scott

Fred, I assume that your other thread on the Bach disc was based on all the speakers playing, not just the sub. I've suggested a few times that to see how "quick", "tight", "musical", etc. a sub is by itself that the speakers be disconnected while retaining an 80Hz or lower crossover in the receiver. Those qualities are almost entirely due to upper harmonics of a fundamental tone played by the sub, and those harmonics are played by the speakers. The very low bass fundamental actually played by the sub itself is "muffled/subdued" as you observed, and not very "musical".

To some extent the level is also lower, since the sound power in the harmonics is absent. The sub frequencies aren't necessarily "power hungry" as we sometimes see stated, since frequency isn't determinative of power requirements; level alone determines that. For example: 50Hz, 500Hz or 5000Hz at the same level uses the same amount of power and a 90dB 500Hz note requires 10 times the power that a 80dB 50 Hz note does.