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#323295 - 09/19/10 08:59 PM Looking at a new sub
warriorwolf69 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 22
Hello folks,

I am looking for a new sub. I have been out shopping and found out that what I would really like probably doesn't exist. Let me explain.

I initially went out to look at a Paradigm DSP-3200. I found the way it plays to be comparible to my old sub. However, after listen to it the salesman brought in a REL T1. I loved the way it disappeared, making my main speakers just seem bigger and not making itself known. Problem was that when listening to movies (which is 95% of what I would use it for) it could not give me that punch when called apon for explosions...etc. During non-action passages it was very nice however it lacked that key ingredient.

I then listened to a Sunfire True subwoofer junior,and a $4k velodyne. Here I found the exact opposite. Like the Paradigm and my old sub these made its pressence know at all times which I found fatiging (granted the Velodyne was les intrusive). Even turned down I heard an over abundance of bass in passages where I didn't think it was nessasary, however, when that explosion happened I got that punch I want.

Is there such a sub that disappears (i.e. making your mains just sound bigger) and yet, during those theatrical instances that require it to go BOOM! it can? The child of a REL T1 and a Sunfire.

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#323297 - 09/19/10 09:04 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: warriorwolf69]
Philippe Offline
local

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 282
What crossover are you at ? Look like your sub running hot (Velodyne)
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#323298 - 09/19/10 09:04 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: warriorwolf69]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
It may be a combination of things. Were the subs you listened to properly level matched with the rest of the system? Did you play with the crosover frequency.

If the sub is at a higher level than the mains, it will stand out.

Punch usually comes from higher frequencies: 80-200 Hz. It is possible your speakers need to be re-positioned in the room. You're seating position may be in a null in some of that upper bass frequency range.
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#323301 - 09/19/10 09:17 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: fredk]
warriorwolf69 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 22
All my observations were done within the dealers listening room. All three subs were place in the same corner and hooked up to a Marantz receiver in the same way (LFE out). The crossover was adjust to 60 and 80hz. I took it by this that their sound was inheirant to their design and not a matter of placement, though placement could have improved responce. I would think the REL capable of such frequencies, perhaps it is not able to compress the air in the room enough, however there is also the very deep base which is lacking. However, if I was watching a comedy with no action I would prefer the REL over one that would bombard me with bass.

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#323302 - 09/19/10 09:21 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: warriorwolf69]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Even a capable speaker in the wrong place would have issues. You would think the dealer would know this and set up appropriately though.

Hmm...
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#323305 - 09/19/10 09:33 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: fredk]
warriorwolf69 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 22
This is my problem. I understand most will want the deep powerful bass of what seems to be the norm in subwoofers, and I can appreciate this since I want it aswell. I can see my solution but it is beyond my finacial means. I would replace my current M22s with M60 or 80, this would give me the bass of the M22 w the REL and I could have a sub such as the Sunfire crossover very low. Perhaps that would keep it from being overly intrusive. Unfortunately this would cause marital problems..:) So I must continue my search of a hybrid.

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#323306 - 09/19/10 09:41 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: warriorwolf69]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Well, the M80s are certainly more capable in the bass department. You should be able to find something that blends well with the M22 in your room.

Have you considered any of Axioms offerings? Have you tried anything in your room?
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#323307 - 09/19/10 09:44 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: warriorwolf69]
Riker Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 375
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
If you are looking for a sub that is non intrusive (small) but has the "guts" for movies, check out the MJ Acoustics Pro 50 MkII.
Links here: http://www.mjacoustics.co.uk/MJ_Acoustics/Product_html/PRO_50_MKII.htm

It's about $800 CA, so about $400 UK, $600 US..

I have heard this sub in person and for it's size, it's very impressive. Very tight, fast, controlled and loud enough for full on movies in small to medium rooms.
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#323311 - 09/19/10 10:42 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: Riker]
warriorwolf69 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 22
The MJ seems to be close to the REL

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#323312 - 09/19/10 10:46 PM Re: Looking at a new sub [Re: warriorwolf69]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10623
Wolf, the factors in a sub not being "intrusive", i.e., not calling attention to itself as a separate entity, but giving the impression that the speakers are putting out more bass, are loudness level and crossover frequency. I have no difficulty in getting this effect with my EP500 by correctly calibrating the level(i.e, not setting it "hot")and using an 80Hz crossover. I've been able to do this with lesser subs as well, but this is because I certainly don't want any unrealistic "punch".
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