Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Need your expert opinion.

I pretty much decided to update my old speakers with Axiom speakers sight unseen, based on the good reviews that I read from different sites and a/v message boards, and because of the 30-day money-back guarantee.

Background info about my dedicated HT room:
room size: 20'x16'x11' (angled ceiling)
video: DLP HD2 projector, 110-inch screen
audio: Denon AVR-5700, energy take-5 speakers

I just need your expert opinion on the ff:
1. I'm thinking of getting the Epic 80 Home theater speakers excluding the subwoofer (M80ti, QS8, VP150). I'm just wondering if this is overkill for my room or not. I picked this one since it's the latest & greatest, had excellent reviews and hoping should be better than its predecessors. Do you think this is the right choice? I do listen to music and watch movies a lot. Money is not an issue. I just simply wanted the best for my HT room.

2. Regarding the M80ti tower speakers. I've read in the message board that it has a good bass. Do I still need to buy a subwoofer considering my room size. I was thinking of getting sub from SVS since it has excellent reviews. Haven't decided yet whether to get the cylinder or the box type. Any other recommendations? Do you know why some Axiom owners prefer to use non-axiom sub?

3. I know I've posted this question before and got positive answers. I just want to reiterate if just to be sure. I know the M80 is rated as 4-ohm speakers. Based on my research you need a good amp or receiver to drive this kind of speakers. I think my denon avr-5700 should be good enough to drive 4-ohm speakers. Do you think I won't have any problem hooking up the M80s to my denon receiver?

4. Regarding the QS8 surrounds, it was mentioned in the product description that it has dual aluminum woofers at the top & bottom. This means that I can mount this on a regular surround speaker stand. I was thinking of using the wall-mount bracket. I have a question to all QS8 owners who mounted their surround speakers using the wall-mount bracket, do you hear any vibrations? Did you put any thin layer foam (or any type of dampening material) between the bracket and your wall?

5. What type of speaker cables do you recommend for these speakers? I would appreciate if you can post or email me link to an internet site where you ordered the cables.

Well thanks in advance for any of your opinions. I can't wait to install this in my HT room soon.

-twelly

Hi twelly,

1. The Epic 80 system, or the same system with M60's instead of M80's, are good choices for your room size. For the fronts to sound their best, you will need to be able to separate them at least 10' apart, and sit at least 10 - 12' away. They need some space to really open up and sound their best.
2. If you want good HT movie performance, you will definitely want a subwoofer. I just got an SVS PB2+ for my 5500 cu. ft. room and it sounds great with my M60/VP150/QS8 setup. I'll bet the SVS 20-39 PC+ (cylinder) or PB2-ISD (box) would match your room quite well.
3. Your Denon will be able to drive the M80's but if you push them hard you might trip your receiver into protect mode. Generally, the M60's are recommended for use with receivers, and the M80's are recommended for use with separates.
4. I tried my rear QS8 on the wall for a few days before I moved it up to a ceiling mount to match the height of the side QS8's. The QS8's come with 2 large rounded rubber feet that can be placed on the bottom corners on the back of the speaker. The wall bracket causes the top of the QS8 to sit about 3/4" from the wall, so the rubber feet will bring the bottom of the speaker out from the wall the same distance. I didn't experience any rattling while I had mine on the wall. Since these QS8's have four drivers in them, they are fairly heavy, and should remain perfectly still on your wall. I would be more worried about your SVS sub causing the QS8's to move slightly. ;-)
5. Typically you can just get some decent 12 - 14 guage speaker wire and get good results. I've had good success with the Home Depot stuff that is on the big spools that can be purchased by the foot.

Jason

Hi Twelly,

1. I don't think it will be overkill at all. I know the listening distance to the M80ti is, I want to say, no less then 10ft ?. It's something right around there. Placement of the M80s can be challenging but worth it.

2. They do have good base indeed but not as good as a dedicated sub can have. Some HT people, Axiom owners or otherwise, like to have not just powerful bass but alot of bass headroom. Headroom is just a measure of how much load the sub, for example, can handle before it bottoms out with a loud "Clack!". More headroom means more bass before bottoming.

3. Your 5700 should have no trouble driving the M80s at very high volumes for extended periods. Obviously you would need an additional amp if you wanted to bi-wire/bi-amp your M80s.

4. I don't have Axioms yet but I do know that the QS Series does have a downward firing woofer ergo most normal speaker stands will block that woofer. Axiom sell stand designed just for the QS series or you can modify your existing stands by drilling a large hole in the center to allow the woofer to breath.

5. The can O Worms question. Here much of the Net as a whole will be devided. Some will say that standard speaker wire bought in bulk is just as good as super crazy expensive wire bought in Beverly Hills. Others will say that the special wire does make a difference. I can not speak for the world at large but I use bettercables.com for my HT cabling needs and am very happy.

I am going to be going much the same route as you. I am planning on buying the Epic 80 sans sub. Then, most likely, dual SVS PB2-Plus subs. I am also considering the PC-Plus 16-46 cylinder sub times two as an alternate to the PB2-Plus. As far as subs go you can email sales@svsubwoofers.com and they will suggest which sub would be well suited to your needs. They are well known for both honesty and accuracy. They will not over sell you. SVS is very well known for its customer service.

I am planning on running this all on a Denon AVR-3803. From the research I have done the 3803 will be perfectly happy running the M80s. As such I am sure the 5700 will barely even notice the M80s are 4 ohm speakers.

I am also looking at the crowsontech.com TES100 tactile transducers. They are very enjoyable for action movies but they do require a seperate amp to power them.

Thanks so much for your advise. I really appreciate it.

-twelly

Welcome Twelly.

I really have no experience with either the M80s or the QS8s, so I can't really speak to your questions pertaining to them. But I have been using audio equipment both personally and professionally for 34 years, and I'd like to speak to the aptly termed (by hbellow in his post above) "Can O Worms" (as in "opening a can of worms") question.

I am amazed at how widely split the forum communities are about cables in general, and speaker cables specifically. Prices range from what they call "zip" wire, which can be found for pennies a foot, to, as I read in a recent post (might have been on this forum, but I can't remember, thank heaven), speaker cables costing $23,000 apiece. I'm hoping that was a joke, but I honestly don't know.

This disagreement has been debated vociferously, viciously, and ad nauseum, on every theater forum I've come across on the Internet. The arguments can be classified, roughly, into two camps; the "Wire is Wire" camp, and the "Wires DO make a difference" camp. I have seen and heard arguments for both camps presented by electrical engineers and other experts, each presenting diagrams and mathematical computations to support their arguments. I STILL DON'T KNOW WHICH IS CORRECT, and since I'm an old goat, I probably never will know.

For the aforementioned 34 years of owning "stereo" equipment, I've always used cheap 16 gauge "zip" or "lamp" wire. I just recently "upgraded" to some really ugly Soundking, oxygen free, 12 gauge speaker wire I purchased at PartsExpress.com.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=18352799&St=9482&St2=88894529&St3=-36220756&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=2792&DID=7

I hate the looks of the clear PVC insulation, but I'm very impressed with the flexibility of this thick, substantial wire. I got 100' for $30, but it's available in a 50' roll for $23, or a 500' roll for $176, if one needs that much. I guess that puts me in the "Wire is Wire" camp, but I can offer you no proof that that position is the correct one.

My advice to you is.........do what you feel is right. If you believe that big, beautiful, expensive cables make your speakers sound better, if their appearance pleases you and you can afford them, then you SHOULD buy those, and be happy with them. If you can be happy with cheaper wire, then THAT's what you should do. The important thing is YOUR contentment with your decision. There is only one person that has to be satisfied..............YOU! So, in the long run, as far as YOUR personal decision is concerned, it doesn't really matter which side is right. Do what makes you feel good. Either way, you'll be satisfied with your Axiom speakers.

Hi twelley.

I know you are looking for "expert" opinion here, but that isn't going to stop me. I am not an expert, I just play one in my HT room!

1. I just got the M60/VP100/QS8 set for a room a little bigger than yours with a peaked ceiling (also sight unseen and unauditioned). I'm a pretty happy guy right now. Joe pointed me to the 60s versus the 80s. Some of that had to do with the 4 ohm thing, but your receiver should handle that nicely and the M60s will fill the area handsomely. Since hooking everything up, I have found that the M60s give me a sense of almost too much speaker for the room. However, in most cases, more audio capability is better; just be aware that the 80s apparently need room to breathe The VP100 choice was driven by space considerations and it is excellent; like you I would have opted for the VP150 otherwise. The QS8s - superb! These speakers are simply wonderful.

2. No speaker will deliver bass approaching what a good sub can provide. If you are looking at the M80s because of the bass, I'd suggest you take the M60s and use the savings towards a good sub. I have an SVS 20-39PCi that is excellent. Look at the SVS and HSU subs - they are excellent. Box or cylinder - personal preference. If $$ aren't an issue, look at the SVS PC -Plus / PB2 series or the HSU VTF-3 as your starting points. Both companies are wonderful to deal with and will spend time talking you through the options. Erik at SVS actually sold me down from the PC-plus to the PCi and I'm thrilled with the end result.

4. I am about to mount the QS8s using the brackets. I'm glad I saw Jason's note about the rubber feet (Thanks Jason!). I will be able to attach the center portion of the bracket to a wall stud, so they should be pretty stable. Placement is to be considered, but these things are purported to be very forgiving. Also, I don't have much appetite for fishing the walls for wires (outside wall and heavily insulated). I found some nice wire channels yesterday that I can paint to match the wall and these will avoid dangling wires.

5. You've already gotten some input to the speaker wire question. It's pretty much unanswerable. After doing weeks of research, I opted for 14 guage wire and I got it in bulk from Home Depot. This appeared to be a common and very effective choice. I avoided the 12 guage based on some input that it's weight and relative "not as flexible as the 14" characteristics may tend to abuse the receiver's connections and loosen them up a bit. Who knows if that is so. Also, in using the bracket to mount the QS8s, the 12 may not allow for a nice mount.

I also saw the "more expensive is much better" comments that you have likely seen. Since no one can clearly prove that thicker or more expensive is better/more effective, the 14 guage Home Depot is in the house and it works fine. My final thought on this piece is this - generally where I stop spending is at the point where any additional dollars only benefit a greater appreciation of the audio for my dog. If I can't hear it, what's the point. The speaker wire discussions got to that point very quickly. Since the Home Depot solution is relatively inexpensive, you could start there and replace the wire later if you have a burning need. Whatever you decide, Monster products are WAAYYY too expensive for what you get.

Summary. M60s or M80s. SVS or HSU. 12 gauge/14 gauge or Home Depot/expensive boutique speaker wires. None of these decisons will be a mistake (except maybe expensive speaker wire ). To echo Jack's input - you will be best served by doing what makes you happy. You don't want to sit down to enjoy your setup and find out you are almost happy. Once you hook up the Axioms and turn everything on, your concerns will disappear in a nanosecond.

Good luck, whatever your choices - get the things ordered. You won't believe how well they all work together.

Ray

The QS8 bracket is a breeze and an elegant solution.

Your Denon will not likely have any problem with the M80 load.

Plan on getting a sub. Get M60's and a sub rather than M80's alone if you have to choose.

I use the 12g Sound King wire from partsexpress.com and am completely satisfied.

You'll enjoy the Axioms.