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#364776 - 01/25/12 01:34 PM Subwoofer Output on Receiver
bolt148 Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 04/12/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I have an NAD T-747 receiver, Oppo BDP-93 player, and M22's, VP-150, QS8s, and an EP500 (all ver 2.5, meaning they have ver 3 insides, but the ver 2 cones).

The issue that I was having was decreased bass output from my EP500. There were some other issues with the amplifier on my sub, so Axiom replaced it with the latest version (yay Axiom!). The EP500 is advertised as having ridiculous amount of power, and I never really experienced this until yesterday (I have had them for almost three years)! Here is what happened.

Whenever I ran the built in room optimizer in the NAD receiver, I made sure to have my sub volume half way up. After completion of the setup, the receiver would always set the sub level to -12!!! So naturally I would go into the settings and change it to 0 and then adjust the volume on the sub itself to the proper listening level. In order for me to get the bass output that I wanted, I would have to have the EP500 3/4 of the way up, and I still didnt have as much ooomph as I wanted. So i just chalked it up to unrealistic expectations (I know, shameful right?).

That's the background, so here is what happened yesterday. I took out my NAD T747 to send in for some repairs, and I plugged the sub cable and a stereo amplifier into the back of the Oppo blu-ray player and started listening to pandora to make sure everything was working. At first it didnt work at all, then I realized I had to go into the settings and downmix the audio to stereo and turn the sub output on manually. Still didnt work, but then again it helps plugging it into the SUB and not the SBL output on the back right!? I finally got it setup right and I starting playing my Basshunter channel on Pandora.

BOOOOOM!!!! A dubstep song came on and totally blew me away! I had to run to the sub and turn down because the bass was soo loud that my 3 bedroom home was shaking! It was still on 3/4 volume mind you. You would not believe the smile on face as my wife came running in shaking her at how loud the sub was. Grinning ear to ear, I told her that that is what my sub is supposed to sound like smile

So why was there such a difference between the two devices? Has anyone had any experience with this issue with any product or specifically, NAD? Now that I have experienced the full power of the EP500, its like falling in love with my system again lol!
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#364786 - 01/25/12 02:48 PM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: bolt148]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Jeremy, glad you have experienced 'the full power of the deep side' (say it in your best Darth Vader voice)! When your NAD comes back I would triple check all of the settings in the NAD and the Oppo to make sure nothing was incorrect or not compatible to cause this issue. If you still have the issue when it comes back, can you test with another AVR just to make sure it really is the NAD and not an Oppo setting?

My best guess on the issue you were hearing (or not hearing in this case) is that once you manually set the EP500 to a reasonable listening level you may have 'maxed out' the EP500 gain based on the 'weakness' of the incoming signal and the DSP in the EP was limiting the output to protect the innards and resulted in less than optimal output. I'm sure one of the actual smart knowledgeable dudes will be along with a more inspired explanation than mine, but at least I tried! Keep us posted on what happens when the NAD returns.

BTW - funny sig.

Cheers,


Edited by cb919 (01/25/12 02:49 PM)
Edit Reason: homage to the sig
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On-Wall M5HP LCR, QS8 & EP500 in 7.1

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#364790 - 01/25/12 03:14 PM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: cb919]
bolt148 Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 04/12/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Glad you asked!

As far as settings are concerned, I was using the hdmi output from the Oppo to the AVR, so there were no speaker configurations applied at that end (verified in the owner's manual).

In the NAD setup, the menus are relatively simple and I checked every possible speakers setting to include the size of the speaker, the distance, the crossovers, and of course whether or not audio would be output for that particular channel.

One of the downsides of this particular model is that I dont have complete control of all the eq settings etc because it was meant to be a simpler interface. I prefer in depth settings, being a technical guy in the army and everything. One of my favorite past times when purchasing new equipment is going through every possible setting to make sure that I know the device completely. Oh yeah, and unlike most guys, I tend to read the manual too....but I digress.

As far as your other question, I do not have another AVR to try. I do however have two more speaker outlets on my stereo amplifier, so I may try to hook the sub up to it via the high level inputs. But that doesn't really provide and end all solution to the problem becuase I would be using a completely serperate input on the sub. I prefer the RCA input anyways.

I am also inclined to agree with your assessment of it simply being a matter of a weak signal given off the by the NAD. I will have the repair technician check that out to when they receive it for repairs.
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#364793 - 01/25/12 03:44 PM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: bolt148]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: bolt148
I have an NAD T-747 receiver, Oppo BDP-93 player, and M22's, VP-150, QS8s, and an EP500 (all ver 2.5, meaning they have ver 3 insides, but the ver 2 cones).

The issue that I was having was decreased bass output from my EP500. There were some other issues with the amplifier on my sub, so Axiom replaced it with the latest version (yay Axiom!). The EP500 is advertised as having ridiculous amount of power, and I never really experienced this until yesterday (I have had them for almost three years)! Here is what happened.

Whenever I ran the built in room optimizer in the NAD receiver, I made sure to have my sub volume half way up. After completion of the setup, the receiver would always set the sub level to -12!!! So naturally I would go into the settings and change it to 0 and then adjust the volume on the sub itself to the proper listening level. In order for me to get the bass output that I wanted, I would have to have the EP500 3/4 of the way up, and I still didnt have as much ooomph as I wanted. So i just chalked it up to unrealistic expectations (I know, shameful right?).

That's the background, so here is what happened yesterday. I took out my NAD T747 to send in for some repairs, and I plugged the sub cable and a stereo amplifier into the back of the Oppo blu-ray player and started listening to pandora to make sure everything was working. At first it didnt work at all, then I realized I had to go into the settings and downmix the audio to stereo and turn the sub output on manually. Still didnt work, but then again it helps plugging it into the SUB and not the SBL output on the back right!? I finally got it setup right and I starting playing my Basshunter channel on Pandora.

BOOOOOM!!!! A dubstep song came on and totally blew me away! I had to run to the sub and turn down because the bass was soo loud that my 3 bedroom home was shaking! It was still on 3/4 volume mind you. You would not believe the smile on face as my wife came running in shaking her at how loud the sub was. Grinning ear to ear, I told her that that is what my sub is supposed to sound like smile

So why was there such a difference between the two devices? Has anyone had any experience with this issue with any product or specifically, NAD? Now that I have experienced the full power of the EP500, its like falling in love with my system again lol!


In recent years, I have tried three different Room EQ systems on three different AVRs and in every case, once the measurements were completed, they reduced bass output considerably. In the end, I always had to go in to the receivers volume settings and manually adjust(increase) it to taste.

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#364795 - 01/25/12 04:05 PM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: casey01]
bolt148 Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 04/12/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I agree, but as stated earlier, even after I went in and changed the volume from -12 to 0, I still had to turn the EP500 up a quarter turn, which should result in a huge volume increase right? At least that is the case now that I have it connected to the Oppo directly.
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#364810 - 01/25/12 06:00 PM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: bolt148]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
it's the same for me; i calibrate my sound system and the results
give me weak output from the sub; maybe it's flat frequency response, but it's too weak.
the first time i increased the gain on the sub, i discovered some very low frequencies in the music that i have not heard before.
i discovered also that tv programs often do have those lows too.

then, i decided to do it by ear on easy to judge scenes in some movies, like the ring drop in LOTR.
when those few seconds are played over and over while adjusting the sub vol. control, one soon sees/hears, according to the distance and the sound qualities, what the right sub volume should be.
for me i had to increase the sub's output in the receiver by 3dB.

since then i've read from a lot of other people that they find the +3dB increase is the right one to use. it gives to the ears a flat freq. resp.
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#364955 - 01/27/12 10:24 AM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: bolt148]
GTZ Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 77
Loc: Wisconsin
IMHO auto calibration is good, but your ears are better.
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#364956 - 01/27/12 10:43 AM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: bolt148]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
I prefer a good auto calibration supplemented by some ear adjustments.
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or: Axiom Gallery

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#364980 - 01/27/12 04:48 PM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: bolt148]
saillard Offline
regular

Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 6
After auto-calibration, you definetely do not want to be at -12. Change the gain on the Sub to be within the range of the auto-calibration (-12 is saturated level). once you get something closer to zero after the auto calibration, then let your ear decide if you need to increase it. I go 3dB up after auto calibration for example.
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#365016 - 01/28/12 05:12 PM Re: Subwoofer Output on Receiver [Re: J. B.]
bolt148 Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 04/12/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I will have to give that a try when my receiver gets back in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the idea!
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