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#411726 - 04/25/15 07:29 PM M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning
69glamboy Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 12/05/13
Posts: 13
Hello everyone...I'm in the planning stages for a home theatre. Getting mixed responses at AVS Forum regarding centre channel speakers. I want to keep my business in Canada and pull the pin for Axiom speakers soon. I would like to use M60's for L and R. Have been told to use a 3rd M60 behind an A/T screen instead of a VP160. ( off axis response?) My problem is that I will have two rows of seating....tweeters are best at ear level... How can a position a M60 upright and project to the second row? Should I just keep the " sweet spot" for the first row and have tweeter height positioned as so?

Thanks in advance for all of your help!

Conrad

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#411727 - 04/25/15 07:44 PM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1735
I've read a bunch of conflicting stuff as well on horizontal CC speakers & it seems that everyone has an opinion. While I suppose that a third identical speaker is ideal as long as it is not blocked by a TV, stand or whatever, it is often not feasible to do in many HT systems.

Based on my unscientific experiments with 3 horizontal CCs of different brands, I found that in my room there were no audible deficits until one was way off axis (outside of 30 degrees), & then there are more nasty problems seeing & enjoying the display. IMO, the artifacts caused by comb filtering & dispersion of horizontals are way over hyped & in the real world are just not a significant factor. I found them to be really negligible & I suspect most people would find similar results in their own room.

I have a VP160 & it is simply an outstanding performer in all respects as a CC. If you can fit one into your system, it is really worth a try, but remember, it is a big sucker...

TAM


Edited by exlabdriver (04/25/15 07:46 PM)

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#411728 - 04/25/15 07:47 PM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
69glamboy Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 12/05/13
Posts: 13
Thanks Exlab!

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#411729 - 04/25/15 07:49 PM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
a401classic Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1328
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Yes, three of the same speaker is preferred, if you can get away with it -with an AT screen you have that opportunity. I'd keep all 3 m60's at the same level and angle. You can probably split the difference between the height of the first and second row for tweeter position, but I'd focus on the front row. One gets used to the sound, regardless of seating position, pretty quickly; even IMAX theaters don't have their tweeters aimed at every seat.
_________________________
Scott

My HT

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#411730 - 04/25/15 08:01 PM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
69glamboy Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 12/05/13
Posts: 13
Excellent. Thanks Scott!

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#411735 - 04/25/15 09:50 PM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10631
Conrad, welcome to Axiom. The VP160 has a T/M configuration that creates no off-axis problem, so it can be considered to be essentially identical in response to the M60.

As far as the question of tweeter level goes, this would be somewhat of an issue regardless of what center speaker(or mains)that you use, but generally this would have a minor effect on the second row if the height was optimal for the first row.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#411739 - 04/26/15 07:38 AM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1005
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
Perhaps I am off base and just not knowing..

But if you have an issue with the tweeter for the center speaker and the second row, would you not have the exact same issue for the Left and Right speaker also? The Center is not like a Sub where you can set all the high frequency to be crossed over to it.
Yes dialog for the most part is in the tweeter range, and most movies dialog comes from the center channel as people talking generally are mid screen, but you can and will get just as much higher frequency from the Left and Right too.
I would say that if you have an AT screen and can get away with aligning the M60's to all be at the same height across the front, then you would get perfect timber matched sound and by far a better sound experience for everyone.
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Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
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#411740 - 04/26/15 07:41 AM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
Serenity_then Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1565
Loc: PEI, Canada
I will have the option to use an existing horizontal CC or lose my rear surrounds in favour of having three matching towers behind the screen. This will give me a bed of 5 vs 7 channels. I'm tinkering with the idea of doing this and moving the CC to a front middle height channel and laying the extra tower on top of a shelf as a rear middle height channel. These will be in addition to 4 in ceiling speakers. Thoughts? Still just a crazy idea at this point. Really want to try three matching fronts. smile
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Trevor. Cold turkey. Thanks guys. Cheers.

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#411742 - 04/26/15 08:31 AM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
69glamboy Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 12/05/13
Posts: 13
I should have included a bit more info maybe. I will be listening to lots of two channel music where I will have my L/ R speakers flanking outside my screen on a front stage. Most likely the listener will be myself in the sweet spot in the front row seat. For movies, it will be 2 rows of people. My concern was , years ago people would mount a centre channel below a non AT screen, now everyone is saying for movie watching you should mount it above the screen to project above the first row heads to the second row. Having said that....My real deal question is why wouldnt HT builders at least raise/ toe down a centre channel behind an AT screen to catch BOTH listening rows of seats?
I also own a Pioneer SC57.... Hoping to keep my speaker setting in memory. 2 channel listening M60's not obstructed behind a screen at all, and then a speaker setting for movies only. Am I getting to involved with this centre channel idea lol?
Lastly... Is there a space requirement from the face of a VP160 to the back of an AT screen so you are not seeing the speakers rumbling the screen....


Edited by 69glamboy (04/26/15 08:46 AM)

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#411743 - 04/26/15 08:58 AM Re: M60 for centre channel- AT screen positioning [Re: 69glamboy]
Serenity_then Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1565
Loc: PEI, Canada
They dont do it because pans across the front soundstage arent as smooth when the tweeters are not at the same height. Placing the CC above the other tweeter heights may reduce the seamless presentation and increase the likelihood of timbre matching/off axis response issues. I'd agree with the first row being priority and the guest row response being easily acclimatized to by guests. The only reason we tweak and obsess over such details in our setups is because we live with them and notice even miniscule optimizations. Your guests may not even notice once they are in front of a huge screen. smile My experience is guests are most impressed by LFE and clarity.
_________________________
Trevor. Cold turkey. Thanks guys. Cheers.

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