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#414092 - 08/14/15 07:56 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: brendo]
DigitalGrit Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
Thanks for all the thoughts and advice. I do plan on pairing the setup with a external power amp, if I decide to cut up my movie system (with the Marantz receiver as a preamp). Looking at the Emotiva 2-channels for that. I am still unsure of which amps/receivers to use, since some of my vintage Marantz and Sansui pieces sound very nice, but could sound much better with better speakers paired with them.

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#414093 - 08/14/15 08:18 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
I should probably clarify what I've been considering:

Speakers:

Axiom M80s (low power or high power, not sure yet)
Axiom M100s
Paradigm Monitor 11 v7
Paradigm Prestige 75f (I can get a good price on these, but it would probably kill off my buying a power amp right now).

I would want to pair these with one of these combos for music 2-channel listening:

- Vintage Sansui G5700 (rated much lower than it's true output
- Older Harmon Kardon receiver (AVR65 from early 90s)
- Older Harmon Kardon AVR65 paired with a power amp (nice option). The amp would likely be the Emotiva XPA2 or XPA3.
- My new Marantz AVR paired with a power amp (slicing and dicing up my movie system to upgrade the overall sound, and also having great music).

I listened to the bookcase Paradigm Prestige units, and they were spectacular. I want towers this time, however, as they are more reflective of the sound I grew up with in the 70s, listening to classic rock on a big 'ol receiver with a big pair of speakers on two channels (sometimes 4 channels).

So... with that in mind, I've narrowed my price range down to the M80s and the amp, or the Paradigms and the amp.

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#414095 - 08/15/15 01:54 AM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
brendo Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 569
Loc: West coast Canada
Check out the B stock I got my M80 and M22 they are flawless, The quality levels are great even the most tiny of details go in to a perfect product.
For the last year I thought my M22 had possibly a color flaw now noticed a ding on bottom front corner, but very small Eg. excellent rating. That took forever to find!
Plus check into used or your older amps will make M80 the star of the show newer tubes on the sansui would even shine

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#414118 - 08/16/15 09:52 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
Thanks brendo!

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#414136 - 08/18/15 11:37 AM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
poiuyt23 Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 06/05/15
Posts: 10
My take on the speakers you have mentioned is that the Paradigms have a great mid range sound but as soon as you throw something with bass at them they fall apart. On a quiet day I went to my dealer, made sure he had time to spend and tried every Paradigm he had in the store. Jazz and Classical sounded OK on them but metal or techno sounded bad on their "higher end" speakers.

My advice is to grab some of your most aggressive music you listen to and test it on the Paradigms at your dealer. If you find that there is something missing, get the Axioms.

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#414139 - 08/18/15 02:43 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
Thanks poiuyt23. That is good advice. I went into a local dealer to listen to the Focal 926 and 936. The 926 have smaller (5.5" drivers), and cross-overs are different between the two speakers. I really loved the soundstage created by the 936. The 926 was a fuller soundstage as well, but were not as strong on the bottom end.

I have to go in to listen to the Paradigms more closely. I actually have heard a lot of feedback (around the web) that Paradigm owners who had the old Studio Series (Studio 100, etc.) were disappointed in the performance of the new/replacement Prestige Series. I've also found that the Monitor 11 v7 is supposed to have stronger bass performance. I think I'll have to take a listen, and decide if that's the case.

My listening session with the Focals was eye opening. I will go back there too, since I didn't get enough time with both speakers. My neighbour also indicated he's making his Linn speakers available. Not sure which line, but he claims they were Cdn $4K, so likely comparable to the Paradigm Prestige line.

I'm glad to know that Axiom units will have more full bass. Does that also apply to the M60s, or is it mostly the M80/M100 that reflect that? From what I see the M60s have the same drivers, albeit less of them, lol.

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#414141 - 08/18/15 04:25 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
Focals are definitely voiced to rock. Emphasized bass and extended treble.

I have heard the 736, 836, 836W and some of their bookshelves at a dealer. Nowhere near an accurate presentation, if that matters to you. Definitely great and eye opening speakers all the same. Powerful sound. Focal is known for great car audio products as well. I'm pretty sure they supply drivers for Wilson audio.

I still vote M80s over focals.

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#414145 - 08/18/15 09:53 PM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
DigitalGrit Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/12/14
Posts: 24
Is there a clear difference between the 'high power' versions of the M60 and M80, and is there a huge difference between the two? It's important to me to have decent bass with two channel sound for music. Wondering if the M60 'high power' unit would work with my vintage receivers, or even my newer Marantz receiver? I'm starting to lean back to the nice real wood cabinets and price of the Axioms, and the M60 seems like quite the speaker.

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#414147 - 08/19/15 01:15 AM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
brendo Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 569
Loc: West coast Canada
The M60 is an 8ohm and 6ohm in the HP. version so any amp. will do.
The M80 are 4Ohms witch will make a lesser Amp hot and possibly fry it. The HP, has more BASS but only a tad the larger the speaker the more BASS

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#414149 - 08/19/15 07:00 AM Re: Sound Quality (Price not important): M60/80 vs... [Re: DigitalGrit]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1096
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
The answer is right here in the specs for both speakers.

Your M60 speaker SPL vs Freq



Your M80 speaker SPL vs Freq




At equal volume, the M80 will have a reach down to the 30~35hz that is the lower bass that you are looking for, where the M60 drops off at 38~40hz.

But has been said before, the speaker is 4ohm dropping down to the 3.2-3.5 at those lower frequencies. it will pull current from the amplifier that generates heat as the power supply has to keep up. What you are asking is a feat for any speaker. The Axiom M80, M80HP and M100 deliver on that bass request, but do it at a price. That is 4ohm impedance, and a high current demand from the Amp.

To get the lower bass sound it requires to move quite a bit of air. You can do this by using either a large 12" driver, or dual 8" or as Axiom has done, 2x6.5" + 2x5.25" drivers. A larger driver can move more air but is not as fast to changes in sound as multiple smaller drivers to do the same work. If you are looking for a tight bass then you will prefer multiple smaller drivers.

I knew a guy that use to supe up the old Volkswagon Beetles and run them at the local speadway as a crowd drawing novelty. He fit a 375hp engine into the back of the beetle and drag race them but it would blow the transmission after each run.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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