Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Klipsch vs. Axiom

I have a dilemma on my new home-theatre set-up. I currently have Klipsch Synergy line components and a 46" Rear Projection HDTV. I am getting rid of the Synergy and the 46" is being replaced by a 92" 16:9 screen / Panasonic HD projector.

Question is about the speakers. I am looking to upgrade to the Klipsch reference series line. This would compose of the RF-35 Floorstanding Speakers, RC-35 Center Channel Speaker, and the RS-35 Speakers (possibly another set for a potential 7.1 set-up). The subwoofer would be a 20-30 PCi from SVS.

How does the following Axiom set-up compare?
M60ti Front
VP100 Center
QS4 rears

The specifications seem to favor Klipsch in almost every category but I'd like to know your opinion on this. I'm pleased with Klipsch but have heard that the Axioms are just much, much better. The price would run about the same.

The Preamp is a Marantz 5300 (90 x 6)soon to be a 6300 or 7300, linked to a Marantz MM9000 THX Ultra Amp (150 x 6 into 8 ohm, 240 x 6 into 4 ohm). My room size is 11' x 25' x 8'. Listening mix would probably be equally split between HT, HDTV and Music (played really, really loud).

Do I go with Klipsch Reference or Axiom?

-Alfred

this might be a hard one, since one would have had to of heard both speakers to make a fair comparison. i, for one, have never heard the klipsch reference series.

i do know that this is the AXIOM SPEAKER website, so i think you might get several recommendations for the AXIOM set-up.

i would suggest you go with the VP150 center, and the QS8's for surrounds. with a system like that, you shouldnt cut yourself short..

bigjohn

Welcome Alfred!
I can't speak for your personal preferance, but I did hear some Klipsch about a month ago and both me and my gf agreed that we liked the Axiom sound much better (though this was far from a perfect blind a/b comparison). I thought the Klipsch were very bright and the highs were extremely 'nasally'.

The only one who's opinion really counts is you though. I think you'd be well served to either: order a set of Axioms and try them in-home for the 30 day trial period, or try to audition some Axioms from an owner in your area (see this thread).

Feel free to stick around the board even if you decide against the Axioms though!
Good luck!

I'm actually leaning towards the Axiom from all the things I have heard and from the reviews I've read on Ecoustics and Audioreview. The post before yours suggested a VP150 for the center instead of a 100, and a QS8 instead of a QS4. For you both: do you think this would be overkill in a room that is 11'x 24'x 8' ? I have also decided that I will probably move up and purchase a 20-39 PCi Plus. According to Tom (perfect customer service just like Axiom = match made in heaven?) the 25-41 PCi plus would be enough but I'm looking to tear down walls with bass. Just keep in mind that the setup is hooked up to a MM9000 THX Ultra Amp that puts out 150 x 6 for 4 ohm, 240 x 6 for 8 ohm. I don't think there are 4 ohm surrounds and centers? Additionall - would it hurt the amp to have a pair of speakers at 4 ohm, and others at 6 ohm?

In regards to Klpisch, I have a room that has a lot of hard surfaces. The walls are bare for the most part, leather couches have not been purchased yet, and there is some exposed hardwood floor. It may explain why my roommates turn down the sound when the movie soundtrack gets louder, a little bright I assume. And it's already paired with a Marantz Amp that's laid back! With the heightened sensitivity of the Klipsch Reference (a ridiculous 97, 98 db), I fear that it would become even more bright. Enter Axiom.

I've narrowed down some more but yet I am still confused on what to do with this system!

I will stay on this board, I like the attitudes of the people.

-Alfred

Welcome, Alfred! Can I come live with you? Okay, how about an extended visit then?

That sounds like a really top-notch home theatre you are building. Both Sid and John give excellent advice.

I auditioned the Klipsch in-store (not side by side) before buying the Axioms. I thought they were fabulous. AND I think the Axioms are even better. To my ear, in a non-scientific environment, the Axioms sound smoother and seem to image better.

For that size room, I would certainly recommend the VP150 center and the QS8 surrounds as John said. The QS8's are just terrific. You might wish to consult directly with the Axiom folks, because a large room, with high volumes in an ultimate theatre setting might indicate a step up to the M80 rather than M60.

You won't find anybody here who dislikes Axioms, so the results are skewed. But really, if you're seriously considering them, I think you'd find they are "similarly good" to the Klipsch, with a different sound that you may or may not like. The "specifications" are not going to tell the story.

Heck, if you can find time on a nice day, drive up to Rochester and visit Ray3. If he's not on the golf course, he could probably provide you with a great listening session.

And do stick around. This is a really good forum.

Alfred, that amp is NOT going to have any problems with the loads presented by Axiom speakers. Even those with lower impedance (the VP150, M80 and QS8) are pretty benign loads with quite high sensitivity. No worries about running 4 ohm mains with 8 ohm surrounds, etc.

You might do a search of the forums for "horn" driven speakers. People tend to have opinions. I try to only listen to what I hear and not translate engineering device choices into skewed perceptions. However, some people say that the Klipsch horn-loaded tweeters are more harsh, directional, nasal, or other derogatory terms. While they are VERY efficient, the Axioms are quite efficient also, and with that kind of amplification in reserve, you won't have to worry at all about volume.

Welcome Alfred!

I have a smaller room than you (11.5'x18'x8'), and I'm running M60s, VP150, and QS8s. So, I'm able to tell you, from experience, that the 150 and QS8s would NOT be overkill.

What I am unable to tell you, is if the VP100 and QS4s would be sufficient. I would hate to recommend more than you need.

Ajax-

Great name by the way, my friends use to call me that in elementary and secondary schools - talk about nostalgia!

You know, this happens every time. I ask for a recommendation on something and I get recommended the top of the line components! A man's gotta eat fellas!

I'm just kidding of course. I could care less if I stayed in all weekend without eating listen to the top of the line set from Axiom.

I keep asking more questions. I apologize if this is becoming ridiculous but hey, it keeps this thread alive.

What do you think of Monster Power and Panamax line conditioners (or comparable brand)? I figure I'd need one to protect the amp and other components.

Hi ajcastaneda,

Just to let you know, I've tested about 2 weeks ago the Klipsch Reference top of the line RC-7 (Center) and RS-7 (Surround) against the VP150 (Center) and QS8 (Surround).

I never made the comparison I was supposed to do but here's a quick quick review.

I and a friend went through a whole day and a whole night of listening to the RS7, then the QS8 (Hooked stereo amps wich we were able to switch in 1/2 second from one set to the other, same thing for the RC7 and VP150). The speakers were hooked on stereo amps but we had a Denon 3801 who was used as pre-amp and amp for some channels (front and surround back for example). We listened to both DTS Audio and DTS video track.

1) The center channel are VERY similar in home theather. We both preferred the RC7 for the voices in movies (Lord of the ring opening scene). When it comes to music though, the VP150 sounds better (Yesterday from DTS Audio DVD from DTS Online). Not WAY better but better. (Please note that the Klipsch is almost twice the price of the VP150).

2) Comparing the surrounds now, the QS8 outperform (should say, blow away) the Klipsch in both music and home theather. Maybe because of the diffusion they have but still, they were musically sounding better.

Two things to consider now... Do you like it VERY loud? If you like it loud, I would say: Go Axiom. If you like it very loud, well, I would have to say go Klipsch. The 2 8inches woofers from the Klipsch are more powerful than the Axiom and perform better when played very loud. I often play music or home theather really loud and the Klipsch were blowing away the VP150 and QS8. Don't get me wrong though, the sound from the Axiom sounded musically better. The thing with Klipsch is that they are excellent quality speakers with a lot of power compared to a boomy Cerwin Vega speaker wich would play as loud as the Klipsch but not with the same quality. Speaking about RC-35 (wich is the baby reference line), I would DEFINITLY go with Axiom and no....... I don't work for Axiom and no, I don't own Axiom speakers but also consider this since I experienced it: Axiom customer service is excellent both by phone or by e-mail.

Hope that helps, if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask,

Sylvain

I've never demo-ed the Klipsch that you mention, AJ, but I have given the RF7s an intensive multi-session listening. The M60s (and the Axioms in general) are far smoother on the top-end than those Klipsch.
I recently A/B'd some Monitor Audio and Klipsch and the air-raid tweeters on the Klipsch were just tooooo much.
The only edge the Klipsch have on Axioms is that increased sensitivity (and greater bass response), but w/ the components and sub you have - in a smallish room - it's a no-brainer. You don't need the Klipsch and the Axioms would sound far better for everything.
My vote goes for VP150, M60s and the QS4s (if you're trying to save a buck somewhere do it on the surrounds).

I figured that the biggest benefactors of the high sensitivity were low-powered receivers such some of the crap you can find at Best Buy (KLH anyone? Good God).

BigWill-
What do you say about the M80's?

Michael-
Axiom should provide us a year of free pizza delivery. I wouldn't be surprised if they did with all the good things I've heard about their customer service
CoolSly-
For the most part I play it loud. Keep in mind that this is an off-campus apartment where the 5 of us rarely have the time to actually watch a feature simultaneously. In addition, there are 4 floors in total, I am on the third. Funny that my main motivation in setting such a system up was that the floor below us would always bump music on their Definitive Techs, and Panasonic receiver which would make the floor boom while I was sleeping (my room was on top of their living room). So I said, to hell with this, I'm blowing the block out of the water.

So for the most part, I'll play it loud (think SPL 75-88 tops), and play it really loud during parties (SPL 105+) though those aren't very frequent. You bring up a good point about the price. Yeah the Klipsch's are better in certain applications especially when the volume is maxed, but they cost twice as much. I think I'm sticking to the Axioms , unless Klipsch releases some new stuff that can blow the Axiom away at this price point (highly doubt it). They just released THX subs, though.


So what's the general consensus of going for the M80's? I'm fearing that there will be so much "speaker" and not enough air to move, that my roommates and I may suffocate to death.



-Alfred

Hi Alfred - I think the general consensus is that the M60 and M80 are VERY similar in tone and capability, and that the only reason to step up to the M80 is for increased SPL.

I just thought about that TV, and that amp, and well, my eyes got bigger than your wallet. I love my M60's, and have no buyers remorse. Terrific speakers and a good value.

In reply to:

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and play it really loud during parties (SPL 105+) though those aren't very frequent.

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Alfred, you may want to consider a separate amp for your mains if you plan on driving the speakers that loud, even if infrequently.

My room is 16' X 24' with a 16' ceiling (a lot of cubic feet!!) Alan recommended, and I got, the M60s, QS8s and the VP150. They are great and will sound super in your room.

Welcome Alfred. A bit more input. I spent quite a bit of time auditioning multiple Klipsch models and my imprrssion was the same across the board. Very good quality audio for about 5 minutes, then I had to escape. My ears were assaulted by the brassy sound of those things.

The Axioms (M60/VP100/QS8s) were clear and articuate on the mids & highs, but it was like butter in comparison to the Klipsch. Oh, BTW - in that size room, the 20-39PCi will peel the skin off small animals and pulverize the bones of canaries, but spend more if you must. One can NEVER have enough LFE.

To play at 105+ DB, I suggest you to get some "boomboxes" instead of pushing the Axiom to 105db. Something like Cerwin Vega that will cost you almost nothing, will sound a bit off but still, at those levels, I definitly suggest "boomboxes" that will hold 105db for a while..

Sylvain

I have seen/heard the Axiom M80s paired with a well powered amp, sustain 106dB (or even beyond). Power is a huge factor though and will often come at a much greater cost than simply buying a larger speaker.

Exactly. A pair of Cerwin or JBL will cost something near 350-400$ / pair when a good amp will cost twice as much and can go easilly wayyyyy over that! .


Sylvain

I agree with the cheap boomy speaker advice.
I just unloaded some Cerwin Vega-type, 12" 3-ways to my little bro. He put them sideways on top of his EC!

Roo-

Originally I was thinking of getting seven seperate Marantz THX Ultra Monoblocks, but I can't seem to find anyone that seels them. My local Harvey store doesn't carry them anymore either. Any suggestions?

They sell them quite frequently on Ebay, though it might take several weeks or months to find 5 or 7 of them.

Mark

Hey bro, I currently have a maratnz sr6300 receiver, going to a MM9000.. I have the epic system + a vp150 center channel… and this set up is Fn perfect… I listened to some klipsh speakers the other week, they sounded ok, but like some others have said the “highs” were quite bright.. at least I though.. I like the axioms because the highs aren't in your face.. but that is a difference in tweeter design, klipsh uses the horn style, where as axiom uses the neodymium magnet… or something neat I'm sure.. I have absolutely no problems with the MM9000 over heating or anything of that nature.

If you want loud, get the M80’s I got the 60's because I didn't need them to be crazy loud.. but from what I hear the M80's hare harder to place for proper HT, where as the M60's are easier to place…