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#416019 - 12/21/15 07:14 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: 2x6spds]
craigsub Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1769
Thanks for the kind words and also for the participation.

Ian takes a different approach to how he thinks his products should be viewed. Most company owners want to talk about the drivers, the crossover, the technology ... basically ... the HARDWARE used in building the speakers.

A lot of forum "gurus" buy into this. "A ribbon tweeter must be superior" ... "the diamond infused midrange" ... that type of talk.

Everything Axiom (and Bryston) does in terms of speaker development involves blind testing. It never stops. If a change is made in a crossover, it's made because of results of hours of blind listening.

This has been a policy for two decades.

MOST companies HATE blind testing, especially the higher priced ones.

A pleasant surprise two weeks ago when I brought up the topic of blind tests with a Vice President at Def Tech. I expected to be told how useless they are, but got quite the opposite. They are also dedicated to the blind test in developing speakers.

Ian, besides being passionate about good customer service, is also quite entertaining when telling you what he expects from a blind test. This is as close to a quote as I can give, based on memory ... it went something like this:

"Craig, if our speaker sounds terrible under blind conditions, then it's a terrible speaker"

When reading the material from Floyd E. Toole, one fascinating "find" they had in their testing is this:

GOOD sounding speakers, under blind tests, were universally liked by the panel. This does not mean all got the same results, but they got results that were consistent, with people preferring accurate sound every time versus a speaker with a "coloring" of the sound.

The preference levels under blind tests are always closer than in sighted tests.

As an example (and this is just a hypothetical for illustration), let's say we have a highly regarded $5000 per pair monitor being tested against a $400 monitor.

Sighted, let's say that, on a scale of 1 to 10, the $5000 speaker scored a 9.5 while the $400 speaker scored a 6 ... in blind tests, the score would be 9 to 8.5.

And the double blind - as is done at Axiom - is even more brutal.

If we have a GTG here, it will be as close to a double blind test as one can get. We have 8 different high end speakers available. This will allow us to do a test in which the listener has no clue what speaker is playing.
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LFR1100 actv, LFR1100, M100, M50, VP180HP, VP150, 3xEP800, M3, EP350, ADA1000-5, ADA1500-4 + 1500-6

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#416021 - 12/21/15 10:41 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: craigsub]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6094
Craig, how far away from the LFRs were you sitting and how tall is your ceiling?
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M100,VP160,QS10HPx2,EP800,M5HP,M3,M50 v4
M80,VP150,QS8x4,EP600 v2
ADA-1000-2,3,1500-3
Air N2

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#416022 - 12/21/15 11:52 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: Mojo]
craigsub Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1769
Mojo - I am still sitting about 12 feet from the speakers, the ceiling is just under 8 feet, and is a drop ceiling with another foot above it.
_________________________
LFR1100 actv, LFR1100, M100, M50, VP180HP, VP150, 3xEP800, M3, EP350, ADA1000-5, ADA1500-4 + 1500-6

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#416069 - 12/26/15 07:20 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: AAAA]
AAAA Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1593
Originally Posted By Serenity_Now
Fantastic writeup. You've got me wanting to buy the trinity sessions.


Picked it up for 2$ in my favourite used CD store. Score!

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#416073 - 12/27/15 01:06 AM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: craigsub]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1939
Loc: Canada
My first M80's sounded their best,IMO, at 12'.
Trying to balance all the "ideals" but somethings gotta give to hit a 12' distance.
Blind listening at Axiom is now (has been for a while) on my bucket list.
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Haven't had a summer this nice in a long time.

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#422447 - 01/14/17 07:48 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: brwsaw]
craigsub Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1769
In the almost 13 months since the last post in this thread, a lot has happened in my life. It started last January when our oldest was having health issues.

He's been a type one Diabetic since age 9, and is now 25. His symptoms were consistent with early MS, and lots of testing was done. It ended up being a temporary issue with his nervous system, and by March, he was in the clear.

During this time period, I had found a pair of late 80's vintage Axiom AX-2's and put them into the system. We were waiting on a new ADA-1500-4 for the 1100's, and it was fun to listen to 25 year old Axioms.

They are an impressive speaker, especially for a simple 8 inch, 2 way speaker.

Then, in April, about the time the ADA-1500-4 arrived, our youngest had a serious accident while away at university and broke his neck in three places.

He was "this close" to being a quadriplegic on a breathing tube (just typing this gives one the shivers). The primary surgery was 7 hours, and the recovery was long and painful.

The good news, he's back in school and his biggest problem ow is weight gain from all the meds - so now he's working on that. To say we are grateful to God and the medical staff for his current health would be an understatement.

All this time, audio hasn't even been a hobby.

Tonight, after several months of the LFR-1100's being in storage and the ADA-1500-4 in the box, I wired them into the system with some new 10 gauge wire and fired them back up.

They are one HECK of a loudspeaker. The level of clarity is astonishing, and the depth of the soundstage is outstanding. I forgot how much I liked these speakers.

It's good to be back in the hobby - right now I am working on a review of a pair of EP800's in our main theater. The 800's would not win a "loudest at 20 Hz contest" against offerings from SVS-JTR-HSU-PSA, but they do things in our room we have never experienced.

Not only is the bass incredibly tight, but even at moderate volumes, we get room shaking bass that one feels. Linearity to 12 Hz is a good thing.

If there is any interest, I will put up a separate thread here about the test, and have an email into Dave Upton at Home Theater Forum about putting the test up there.

I also ordered a Powersound Audio V1801 to test - it's $1299 USD, delivered anywhere in the contiguous 48. It has an 18 inch driver, Ice Amp and a claimed -3 dB @ 16 Hz.

That's a lot of potential in a relatively affordable sub. It's also mostly American made (remember, America is a continent, not a country - Axiom and PSA both are dedicated to "working local", and I find that to be admirable).
_________________________
LFR1100 actv, LFR1100, M100, M50, VP180HP, VP150, 3xEP800, M3, EP350, ADA1000-5, ADA1500-4 + 1500-6

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#422469 - 01/15/17 02:20 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: craigsub]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6094
I am very glad to hear your youngest son is doing better and is out of the woods. Put him to work moving subs around and he'll be fit in no time. smile
_________________________
M100,VP160,QS10HPx2,EP800,M5HP,M3,M50 v4
M80,VP150,QS8x4,EP600 v2
ADA-1000-2,3,1500-3
Air N2

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#422491 - 01/15/17 06:27 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: craigsub]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13611
Loc: Iowa
I myself have not been around that much over the last year or so. Sorry I missed your post Craig from way back. I am happy to hear things are looking more positive and will keep your family in my thoughts and prayers.

I am glad to be back myself and happy to see many of my old chums still around smile
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M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB SonyUBPX800



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#422503 - 01/16/17 08:24 AM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: craigsub]
Newf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 759
Loc: NL
Wow, this one hits too close to home. I'm very sorry to hear about your son but happy to hear about your son doing better and welcome back. I suffered a similar injury when I was 19, but to watch your child go through it must have been rough. Sadly I didn't get the medical attention I needed at the time and suffered since. It totally changed my life, I had to give up every athletic hobbies I enjoyed. I'm now 42 and the symptoms of the injury have become quite serious. But again where I live the medicare is horrible, and they won't risk surgery. Meanwhile I'm off work more then I'm working, losing my arms legs etc. I also have two more health issues I won't get into here that makes life "harder". Hence why I am looking elsewhere for help. I'm heading to Ontario the summer. I've been on more waiting list for for more doctors over the past 10 years than I can count and nobody will touch me. Which is why I have held back on buying toys over the last bit. Now Xmas time I think the woman, god love her, said screw it, get some new toys it makes you happy and I did but the reality is maybe I shouldn't have....but I did enjoy getting some new Axiom's! One of the few things I can still do is sit down and enjoy a movie and music when I can. But now I got the upgrade bug back....oh no.

If I can offer any advice to someone with a recent neck injury, do not leave anything unchecked, and fight fight fight to get everything taken care of right away. Once the injury has been there for a while, most doctors will say it's too late to do anything. Best of luck.



Edited by newf (01/16/17 08:26 AM)
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2xAA
M80/VP150/VP160/QS8
4xM3/M22OW/M2OW/VP150OW/4xM3IC/4xM3OW
EP500/800/HSU VTF3/SVS PB2k/SB2k/SB-12

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#422519 - 01/16/17 07:54 PM Re: Blind Test and a review of the LFR-1100's [Re: craigsub]
craigsub Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1769
Mojo and Sirquack - Thanks for the kind words.

Newf ... Thank you for the hear felt advice. We have had a wonderful medical team, and the surgeon lives about 600 yards from us. A follow up is in April, and we are looking to have all the "metal" removed later this year.
_________________________
LFR1100 actv, LFR1100, M100, M50, VP180HP, VP150, 3xEP800, M3, EP350, ADA1000-5, ADA1500-4 + 1500-6

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