Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
2x6spds #416807 02/02/16 05:20 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
M
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
M
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted By 2x6spds

Matt, not to start a discussion which could wake this place up, but my experience with tube amps is that they produce excellent sound quality. If you audition a good tube amp, or even a modest tube amp like Monoprice's $150 effort, you might agree that the difference is not "distortion." To my ears, tubes sound more "you are there," more like real life. It may be that the tube sound does not add "sweetness" as much as solid state amps miss it.


If you put on an Oscilloscope and capture what is going in vs what is coming out, there is a difference beyond just amplification.

Distortion (Electronics). to reproduce or amplify (a signal) inaccurately by changing the frequencies or unequally changing the delay or amplitude of the components of the output wave.

This is not saying it is a bad thing, but non the less what is coming out of the amp is not exactly what was recorded. Some will say that many of the axiom speakers they feel distort the sound that they are use to hearing compared to other speakers. And my point giving was that many of the electric guitar players use a tube amp to get that overdriven distortion sound that is what they are looking for.

I have not had the privilege to sit down and listen critically to a tube amp or tube pre/SS-amp setup. If I had more money it would be something that I would surely do. I think of it as something like peoples preference between digital recordings and analog vinyl or real to real tape.


Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A
Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
elsewhere #416809 02/02/16 06:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,420
Likes: 6
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,420
Likes: 6
2 ears and a brain, the most incredible audio analyzer in the universe.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
2x6spds #416810 02/02/16 06:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1
C
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
C
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By 2x6spds
2 ears and a brain, the most incredible audio analyzer in the universe.



This generally makes people angry to read, but here goes:

When anyone touts how an amplifier sounds better than other amplifiers, and does so based on sighted tests, it is more than 2 ears and a brain. One's eyes are playing a major part of the test. Floyd E. Toole has done extensive research in this matter, and The Audio Critic has done so as well.

Hundreds of blind tests have been done on tube amps versus solid state amps for decades, and there has never been a properly run test in which the test subjects could hear these differences under blind tests with one exception: A tube amp with a non linear response curve will sound different from a solid state amp with a linear response curve.

A non linear response curve has a comparable effect that an equalizer has on a system.

Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
elsewhere #416811 02/02/16 07:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,420
Likes: 6
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,420
Likes: 6
I'm not angry. I have 2 ears and a brain, no oscilliscope. I don't watch the tubes glow, I tend to look at the fireplace.

The sound of live performance is the gold standard. Some recordings are certainly far better than others. No type of amplifier will transform a poor recording into a verisimilitude of a live performance. But, I have found excellent recordings which come close when played through my 5wpc SET tube amp and Axiom speakers (or Axiom made speakers like the Michauras).

Now, such recordings when played through some excellent solid state amplifiers (Odyssey, Yamaha M80 first 30 watts in pure class A, Integra M504) also sound wonderful, just a subtle bit less so, in my opinion.

On the other hand, M100s and the Odyssey Khartago SE, and tube preamap, and Thiel CS3.6s and the Integra M504 have also lit me up pretty good.

Your 2 ears and brain may come to a different conclusion.

Bottom line, joy from music!


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
elsewhere #416812 02/02/16 07:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
E
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
E
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,767
I've stated this before, after the novelty wore off with my tubes, I came to the conclusion that I don't really hear any difference in my Tube Amp vs SS - but that is just me.

In fact I changed out the whole complement of 10 OEM tubes with a different brand & heard no appreciable difference. According to all of the tube experts out there, I should have. I was was expecting quite a change in sound signature but it didn't happen in my system or my ears. Changed back to the OEMs & I'm storing the new ones until the OEMs eventually fail.

Having said all that, I really do luv the imposing presence of the Tube Amp in my room - it really looks cool (especially when glowing in the dark). I highly recommend dabbling in this facet of this pastime for music listening...

TAM

Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
elsewhere #416814 02/02/16 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,593
A
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
A
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,593
So long as its fun, thats all that matters. smile

But seriously.... laugh I wont start.

Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
2x6spds #416820 02/02/16 11:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1
C
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
C
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By 2x6spds
I'm not angry. I have 2 ears and a brain, no oscilliscope. I don't watch the tubes glow, I tend to look at the fireplace.

The sound of live performance is the gold standard. Some recordings are certainly far better than others. No type of amplifier will transform a poor recording into a verisimilitude of a live performance. But, I have found excellent recordings which come close when played through my 5wpc SET tube amp and Axiom speakers (or Axiom made speakers like the Michauras).

Now, such recordings when played through some excellent solid state amplifiers (Odyssey, Yamaha M80 first 30 watts in pure class A, Integra M504) also sound wonderful, just a subtle bit less so, in my opinion.

On the other hand, M100s and the Odyssey Khartago SE, and tube preamap, and Thiel CS3.6s and the Integra M504 have also lit me up pretty good.

Your 2 ears and brain may come to a different conclusion.

Bottom line, joy from music!


Joy from music is a good thing. Telling people one amp sounds better than another, when you know which amp is in the system, has been proven time and time again under blind tests to be lacking in credibility. This does not make you a bad person. You are just espousing bad science.

Stereophile refuses to do blind tests for the same reason: They know that all their talk about "this amp has more bloom when reproducing Classic Guitar than did that amp" would be shown to be nothing more than bias.

You are biased in regards to amps. That's OK. Almost everyone is.

I have participated in over 50 blind amp tests, the first being in 1980. In EVERY test, differences well meaning audiophiles could hear when he/she knew which amp was playing disappeared when the test was blind.

On Home Theater Shack last year, an extensive blind test was done with I believe 8 listeners. In the test, one guy "got it right" 5 out of 7 times. But another "got it wrong" 5 out of 7", and at the end of the test, if one adds up the results, the guys were guessing.

Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
elsewhere #416821 02/03/16 01:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
I found that H.T.S. test to be quite fascinating. As to how the fellow could pick out the tone of their own equipment in that test. Must have been a certain tone they were familiar with on that brand.
Though all that matters is you are happy with your own choice, in your gear.

Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
brendo #416822 02/03/16 01:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1
C
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
C
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By brendo
I found that H.T.S. test to be quite fascinating. As to how the fellow could pick out the tone of their own equipment in that test. Must have been a certain tone they were familiar with on that brand.
Though all that matters is you are happy with your own choice, in your gear.


Exactly ... For most people, I would recommend NOT doing blind tests because this is a hobby for fun. Blind tests are work, and they are tiring.

When we did a blind speaker shootout here 9 years ago, after 2 hours of testing, the guys were exhausted. And this was with several breaks.

After 2 hours of actual A/B switching between speakers, everyone wanted to drink. I jokingly mentioned going back for more listening tests, and almost got myself seriously hurt. laugh

Re: Seeking some amp advice for m80s
elsewhere #416824 02/03/16 02:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
The problem I had when I participated in a blind test (at Axiom a few years back) was conveying the differences in what I was hearing into words. I could definitely hear (subtle) differences between the two speakers (both were very good) but didn't know how to relay that in words.

Regardless of what anyone else believes or says about speakers, amps or any other thing in life, it's what makes you happy that really counts in the end.


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,376
Posts432,000
Members15,416
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,437
SirQuack 13,686
CV 11,805
MarkSJohnson 11,451
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 102 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4