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#417084 - 02/16/16 11:13 AM Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room?
TimP Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Any thoughts on this question? I have a pair of M80 V2's in a room 16.5 x 13.4 feet and I cannot seem to get them to sound the way I would like. My amp is a NAD C390DD 150 wpc so I don't think power is an issue.

My gut feel is that I should be using stand-mount speakers to get the source more focused, ideally point-source.

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#417087 - 02/16/16 11:42 AM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: TimP]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6884
Loc: It's all about the location.
When you say they don't sound quite the way you like, can you describe what it is you are hearing/not hearing? could be helpful to know what your room is like... is it carpeted or do you have hardwood floors, curtains, bare walls etc? could be a room issue.
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#417088 - 02/16/16 11:59 AM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: TimP]
TimP Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Sound is very good, but seems lacking in presence. Like the event is happening down the hall. I'm not good at describing this. It's better/worse depending on program. Orchestral or choral programs are perhaps worst. Jazz vocalists ensembles are pretty good. I've used room eq wizard REW to measure and tune lows. Room is pretty soft. Hard floors about 2 feet around outside with low carpet in center. Walls a bit bare on upper 2/3 rds. Stipled ceiling. No special room treatment.

Maybe I'm just being picky. I don't have a lot of experience auditioning to go on. Need to hear a pair of KEF blades on monoblocks smile


Edited by TimP (02/16/16 12:31 PM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#417089 - 02/16/16 12:04 PM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: TimP]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6884
Loc: It's all about the location.
You could try toeing the speakers in/out slightly as well as moving them out from the wall. Sometimes it's the source mat'l. I've also got M80V2's and certain recordings sound great while some are lacking.
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#417090 - 02/16/16 12:18 PM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: Adrian]
TimP Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By Adrian
You could try toeing the speakers in/out slightly as well as moving them out from the wall. Sometimes it's the source mat'l. I've also got M80V2's and certain recordings sound great while some are lacking.
Backs of speakers are 15" from front wall, cenetred in room, 6.5 feet apart. toed in so tweeters would direct slightly behind my head. LP is about 7.5 feet from spkrs, equidistant.

My local sources are mostly ripped cds to flac. I have a few higher res downloads. Also listen to Spotify premium.

I appreciate conversing with you.


Edited by TimP (02/16/16 12:19 PM)
Edit Reason: t

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#417092 - 02/16/16 12:50 PM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: TimP]
TimP Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Listening to ChanChan on Buena Vista Social Club, I felt performers were too far away, but loud enough to not want more volume. Soundstage was a bit narrow. Moved speakers so no toe-in or out and I think it has improved. A few weeks ago, everything seemed right of center. I thought something was wrong with the hardware. Then I looked right and saw the patio doors with exposed glass. When I put some couch cushions there, problem solved.

This is hard to get right.

Anyway, my main question remains ... can speakers be too big for the room. My M80s have 6 drivers vertically mounted and only 7 feet from my head. Will they resolve from there or should I be back 14 feet ... impossible in this room.

Thanks to anyone with an opinion to share


Edited by TimP (02/16/16 12:51 PM)
Edit Reason: more typos too many for a perfectionist like me

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#417093 - 02/16/16 01:47 PM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: TimP]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3264
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Hello,

I have a pair of M80s and a pair of M22s, the latter on a pair of 22-inch stands, the M80s outflanking the M22s, in a room somewhat larger than yours.
I prefer the M22s (which run with an EP500 subwoofer) to the M80s, but only because the M22s are easier to ideally position for a really good soundstage, width and depth. Both sets of speakers are musically very neutral, of course, and with the subwoofer running, it's hard to distinguish between the two pairs using the A/B switching, except that I prefer the M22s because of the soundstage placement, which is higher than the subjective image from the M80s, which seems closer to the floor (I'm particular about the soundstage height.)

When I used to work for Axiom, I use to advise against getting M80s for smallish rooms, only because they are big and heavy and harder to ideally place than bookshelf speakers. It would seem there's something amiss in your installation, because the M80s set up properly and ideally placed, are capable of a very wide deep soundstage, something that my M22s yield but my M80s do not because of their less-than-ideal placement in a room thats 13 x 20 x 9 ft. I sit about 8 to 10 feet back from both sets of speakers.

I do think you're sitting too close to your M80s. They don't really "open up" until you're well back from them, so I'd experiment with other placements that let you sit 10 or 12 feet back from them. Otherwise, you may find a pair of M22s on stands would deliver the soundstage depth and width you're searching for.

REgards,
Alan
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#417095 - 02/16/16 08:48 PM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: alan]
solarrdadd Offline
devotee

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 310
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By alan
Hello,

I have a pair of M80s and a pair of M22s, the latter on a pair of 22-inch stands, the M80s outflanking the M22s, in a room somewhat larger than yours.
I prefer the M22s (which run with an EP500 subwoofer) to the M80s, but only because the M22s are easier to ideally position for a really good soundstage, width and depth. Both sets of speakers are musically very neutral, of course, and with the subwoofer running, it's hard to distinguish between the two pairs using the A/B switching, except that I prefer the M22s because of the soundstage placement, which is higher than the subjective image from the M80s, which seems closer to the floor (I'm particular about the soundstage height.)

When I used to work for Axiom, I use to advise against getting M80s for smallish rooms, only because they are big and heavy and harder to ideally place than bookshelf speakers. It would seem there's something amiss in your installation, because the M80s set up properly and ideally placed, are capable of a very wide deep soundstage, something that my M22s yield but my M80s do not because of their less-than-ideal placement in a room thats 13 x 20 x 9 ft. I sit about 8 to 10 feet back from both sets of speakers.

I do think you're sitting too close to your M80s. They don't really "open up" until you're well back from them, so I'd experiment with other placements that let you sit 10 or 12 feet back from them. Otherwise, you may find a pair of M22s on stands would deliver the soundstage depth and width you're searching for.

REgards,
Alan


use to........ shocked what the....... eek exactly when did this occur? frown
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#417096 - 02/16/16 11:55 PM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: TimP]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4709
The answer is it is possible to have speakers that are too large for your room but that's not your problem.

Place them along the length of the room instead of the width. Place the back 2 feet away from the front wall, space them 9 feet apart and sit 8 feet away on the diagonal. Treat the first reflection points on the sidewalls and floor at least - ceiling if practical.

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#417097 - 02/17/16 06:31 AM Re: Can Speakers be Too Big for the Room? [Re: TimP]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
My guess would be that yes, they are too close together. My M80s are more like 8-10ft apart, not toed, and I definitely don't have that effect. My room is a fair amount larger, though, at ~ 19x20ft with an open hallway and large opening to the kitchen.

Alan retired a couple of years ago.
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