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#419801 - 07/19/16 10:05 PM Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos
Fatboycarney Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 33
Hi All

Hopefully I clearly show you my setup and explain what I want and not cause a bunch of confusion.

I have attached some pics of the room (M60Ti circa 2002, VP150Ti Circa 2002, M3 V4 Circa 2014, Denon 2112, Klipsch SUB circa 2002)


Note that the chair there will be gone and 2 large lazy boys will be centered to the screen. This could change in the future as I would like 4 wide theater seats someday

https://goo.gl/photos/ymimogsNQdaHD7ZCA

I have recently sorta got wife approval to move my M3s from upstairs downstairs to use as the side surrounds (before was relying on cheap in walls behind that bothered me since installation)

So now my next step. I have a couple of thoughts/options

For ATMOS I am good heading toward 5.1.4 or 7.1.2

I got some feedback from a well known forum that my room wouldn't work for 4 ceilings which makes sense as I wouldn't be able to properly mount Top Rear speakers. They will be to low (the bulkhead is about 6'11" where the drop ceiling is about 8'

So now I am looking at rear surround position and have a couple thoughts.

Option 1) No rears as MLP is to close or not needed as M3s cover the back. (might be true but performed some blind listening tests with myself and the family (kids were actually blindfolded) and everyone of us could tell the difference. Kids and wife didnt know it was more speakers though just different.

Option 2) replace in walls with M3 IN-walls move rear left in as its way to far over.

Option 3) Install non Axiom (*cringe*) Aimable In walls to allow them to stay out wide but be aimed to the listening position. Still might move left rear in.

Option 4) Move QS4s that are upstairs and dont get used and put them in correct position on back wall ( I have read the big debates on here and other sites about non-direct radiating speakers and Atmos) My thinking is that based on a .2 setup and the fact that my back wall/bulkhead is a challenge maybe the QS4s would fill out the back

So this is step 1 on the Journey to improve my setup to where I know it should be and prepare for the next step to Atmos.

Hope to hear lots of thoughts and feedback.

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#419802 - 07/19/16 10:45 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2204
Loc: Whitehorse YT
I am curious why you did not choose to go length wise with the screen on the end wall. I can only see so much with the photo's you have. Basements and the accompanying venting can be a real PITA . I just bought a house and had to go from 7.1 to 5.1 and honestly I don't miss the extra speakers but having them in the closet bugs me LOL. I have QS4's in the bedroom and QS8's in my movie space and they work great as side surrounds , I have found that mounting them up high near the ceiling works best. I would say some M3 or M22 in walls at the back would be your best move.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

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#419803 - 07/19/16 11:35 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
Fatboycarney Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 33
That was my original plan but was not approved. There is a window (albeit a small one) and my wife did not want it covered by the screen.

Thanks for the feedback. And yes there is not only duct work but a large steel beam under that bulkhead. Was a huge part of basement finishing work.

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#419805 - 07/20/16 02:22 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4698
FATBOY!!!!

Not sure if I suggested this to you before. Move those M60s 1.87 feet into the room, point them straight ahead and listen to the magic that happens!

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#419806 - 07/20/16 02:33 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2204
Loc: Whitehorse YT
You have some options here. Change the room the way you want it and then beg forgiveness. Lay on the floor to watch movies, the center on the floor is not doing anything to enhance the experience. Find a way to put the QS4;s to the sides and get the M60s as close together as possible and M3 in walls. You really are not far enough away from what I see to let the sound fuse in the room. Can you not convince the wife to let you have one room in the house for yourself, mean seriously its one window and its blacked out anyway. smile


Edited by Socketman (07/20/16 02:34 PM)
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

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#419807 - 07/20/16 03:38 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
Fatboycarney Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 33
Oh yes the center will be wall mounted. I just need to get that done.

Problem with the room setup is all wiring is run and in wall and even though it could be done I am not up for that kind of work.

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#419808 - 07/20/16 03:39 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Mojo]
Fatboycarney Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 33
I will give this a try thanks Mojo!!

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#419809 - 07/20/16 03:41 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
Fatboycarney Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 33
Does anyone have instructions on where I can drill the VP150Ti? It does not have the mounting screw but I remember i was given this info at one time but have since lost it.

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#419810 - 07/20/16 09:04 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5319
Loc: Marion, IA
Interesting problem. My first thoughts were 5.1.2 max for that layout, and I too wanted to see you turn it to be long and not wide... In V2.0 of my theater, it was super wide and only 12 feet from rear wall to screen. My wife loved that idea as it was in a shared space, but I hated all of the challenges with not having usable side walls, and not being deeper away from the screen.

I then switched to V3.0 in the same house. Different room, and it had its own problem, but I was able to get 15 feet from rear wall to screen, and I actually had side walls now. The sound was light years better, as was the overall experience, using the same speakers, receiver, projector, and screen.

Now, you noted that your family could tell a difference when adding more speakers, but will you get a huge benefit using your current layout? Maybe.

Sure, more speakers are better for imaging (as long as the speakers as assignable, and the room is "good"), but there is so little space behind your seat that I am not sure that it is really worth the effort.

A few things that could help your overall sound if you absolutely can't rotate 90 degrees in the room is, as already mentioned, bump your L/R speakers away from the wall a little bit. Let them breathe!

Take your side surrounds and actually position them slightly in front of your listening position. This will help to fill the "gap" between your left/right speakers and the next closest "bed channel" speaker, you side surrounds. It will also put some separation between those and the rear speakers should you go that route (with the current in-walls, or using Axiom in/on-wall speakers).

You really don't have great placement options for overhead speakers. You can put 2 speakers up on the ceiling, just in front of the soffit that you have there and get your biggest bang for your buck in your setup. If you wanted to go one step further, you could put 2 speakers up front as high up on the front wall as possible (in more of a DTS:X position), but again, you won't get as big of a benefit.

Again, with the limited space from the rear wall and screen, I don't see a big benefit over 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 if you can get the rear speakers ironed out.

Don't give up though, just more to think about. I could talk more about not using QS speakers in an Atmos layout, but it is fairly common now that monopole speakers are the most ideal, especially for smaller spaces like yours. In large rooms, QS speakers *could* be OK, but that is all I will say about it.

Keep talking through it and see where you end up. I am loving my 7.2.4 setup, but I have a purpose built room (14'wide x 24.5' deep, soundproofed, lots of acoustical treatments, and all monopole speakers.
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#419813 - 07/20/16 11:54 PM Re: Theater - Fixing issues and heading towards Atmos [Re: Fatboycarney]
Fatboycarney Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 33
Thanks Nickbuol I read most of your Atmos thread. Very good info and very interesting

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah the room is staying as is. Next house I will be doing a more dedicated room but who knows when that will happen.

I guess the thing is if the difference between 7.1.2 and 5.1.2 is negligible it's likely not worth the significant extra cost in the receiver. And I could put that towards a new Sub

I will do a few more demos myself and with the family and see if I can hear any differences.

Also got the centre mounted on the wall tonight so that should be much improved.

Do you think the M3 in ceilings will work well enough as far as dispersion for the in ceilings? I read they have a movable tweeter so that should help.

Thanks again to everyone who has replied

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