Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M60 Ti vs v4

I thought 10 Watts/channel was enough for me in my 4200 cubic foot room. Then I moved to the far field and now 100 W/c is not enough. The EP600V2 is also not enough.

So what do you have right now?

Rock, I certainly didn't suggest that you consider a "high-end" receiver. A modestly-priced receiver, perhaps as little as $200-$300 if available factory refurbished, maybe $100-$200 more if new, furnishes all the quality amplification that our ears need. The linked article is another example of high-end nonsense which throws out myths which fail when put to blind listening tests.

My own listening is almost entirely classical, and as I indicated above, your biggest improvement after getting an HT receiver would be to listen to all music in surround mode, preferably with side-surround speakers such as the QS8s. Contrary to the rants in the linked article, it's listening to music only with front speakers which is "lacking" in realism.

Thanks John K. I will certainly give it a try when my Yamaha RXV381B settles at my home. I will test first the 2.1 setup side by side with NAD. As for music, never try with 5.1 on a decent setup. Since most music were recorded with two channels, did you suggest to turn on Dolby feature while listening to music?

Yes, I always use Dolby DPLII for music. When listening live at concerts the music doesn't come at us just from the front. Much of the sound arrives as reflected ambience from the sides or back. DPLII extracts this out-of-phase information from the front channels and sends it to the surrounds where it belongs. Turning the surround mode off while listening causes a sudden loss of realism as the sound image collapses toward the front.

Hi Alan,

If you have some time to review my questions that will be appreciated.

I did some tests:
1. CD-preamp-amp main in: drive one channel and two. not much difference
2. CD-preamp-amp line in: getting better, more control. one channel or two, not much difference.
3. CD-amp line in: even better. can go higher volume without feeling strained.

Questions:
1. So NAD amp can handle the incoming sound well with its preamp than Oppo, correct? Would NAD soft clipping feature distort the sound so I shouldn't enable it?
2. If M22+EPC500 is a good combination without huge investment on high end floorstanding speakers, then next step should be upgrading the AMP. What would be the recommendation? An AMP with sub pre-out and high power (>175W)?

You need one of these connected to your NAD pre-outs! Maybe you need 4 of them with each pair operating in bridged mode. Buy 2 and if they're not enough, buy two more.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-11497-W...price+amplifier

Soft-clipping reduces the harshness of clipping so leave it on.

I have the last great receiver Onkyo ever made. The TX-NR818. I got it for $Can750 including GST.
http://www.onkyo.ca/Products/model.php?m=TX-NR818&class=Receiver

I have M80v2 and VP150v2 for the front, 4xQS8v2, an EP600v2 in an untreated 4200ft^3 room that is open to the rest of the house via a large stairway.

I used to sit 8 feet away from the speakers on the diagonal and now I am 15 feet away from them on the diagonal.

I used to listen 20dB below reference level to movies and music. I now find myself going to 5dB below reference.

Experiment with DPLII and Neo processing. I find I like Neo on some source material. On some music I don't like either. My room is reflective enough that with well-recorded pieces it sounds amazing. When I am listening to music on surround, I usually disable the VP150.

Hi Rock,
Yes, regarding test #3 you did, I'd agree that the NAD is entirely capable of handling the incoming signal with its own preamp/amp, and better with fewer complications than using your outboard preamp.

I'd agree with John K's recommendation: an AV receiver with 100 watts per channel should be more than adequate to drive your M22's to high volume undistorted levels in your particular room. YOu can use the receiver's internal crossover adjustments to properly link your M22s to the EP500 subwoofer without having to drive the M22s "full range".

Quite a few posts back, you mentioned that you'd turned up the NAD "all the way" until it couldn't go any louder. Do NOT do that anymore with an amplifier or receiver -- you risk damaging the voice coils of the M22s tweeters/midrange drivers with a distorted "clipped" signal.

You may have already done some damage but it's hard to determine that without checking each driver in the M22s.
As Mojo suggested, leave the NAD's "soft clipping" feature on unless you hear increased distortion. To be honest, I've never seen proper tests of the Nad soft-clipping feature so I can't comment on its effectiveness.

And, like John K (and Mojo), I do most of my music listening with Dolby Pro Logic II (or the equivalent from dts). Harman/Kardon receivers also have a third music-surround mode called "Logic 7" (designed after Lexicon, which Harman owns). Logic 7 on my H/K receiver sometimes seems to add a little more image depth on good recordings than ProLogic II or dts, but the difference is slight.

Like Mojo says, if you don't like the surround effect with some recordings, just turn it off and listen in stereo. You do have to adjust the ProLogic II or dts surround settings to your own taste to get the best results.

Here is a link to an article I wrote for Axiom years ago on the fundamental flaws of stereo music listening:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/stereoflaw/

You can find it under "Blogs" on the Axiom website.

The enhancement in realism using 5.1 surround (or greater) for music listening with good recordings sometimes is dramatic. Other times, it's modest, but in many cases if you switch off the surround mode and go to 2-channel playback, the image collapses into a much less realistic, disappointing flat line between the speakers.

Regards,
Alan