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#426406 - 08/19/17 11:05 AM One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers?
edvacdude Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 91
Loc: DFW, Texas
All, I purchased a complete set of Axiom speakers for a 7.1 configuration more than 10 years back, which along with a Denon 3805 and a Denon universal DVD player, 'made my cup overflow' with music bliss (OK on the visual side with a Panny 42" TV).

Five years back, a Hsu sub added the oomph for classical tracks that are on the low frequency side like organ music, and for movies like U-571. A few years back I sprung for a projector and a BD player (with 7.1 analog outputs) that significantly improved the visual side of my previously music focused configuration. A day back I purchased a new Marantz SR6011 Dolby Atmos (supports 11.2 with extra amp) receiver. Though the Denon 3805 was a great receiver (driving the 4 ohm M80s with ease, and supporting 7.1 analog inputs for either the Universal DVD OR BD player), the lack of HDMI was getting to be increasing a serious handicap.

Now, the $1,000 question. Since my media room measures 16' long, 15' wide, and 10' feet high, would I be served best with TWO sets of ceiling speakers, or one pair? If the spend on the extra $500 will not provide me an appreciable increase in fidelity on the sound track of movies with overhead action, especially given the length of my room, then I don't think I need the 2nd pair.

Aside
The seating position (4 seats) is roughly 9' from the screen in a slight arc. The rear speakers are 7' behind the seating area (the room being 16' long). I'll have to lower the sides/rear QS8s to eye level based on the Dolby Atmos preferred room configuration for a 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 configuration . Additionally, I"ll move the seats 1-2 feet in front.

Would appreciate your insights you all on the ceiling speaker configuration. Over the years, I've come to respect the friendly camaraderie, and expertise in this forum, don't think I'll be disappointed!
_________________________
Axiom M80Ti,VP150,QS8(4)
HSU VTF-3 MK3
BenQ W1070, Panny DMP-BDT500, Sony CDPCX255, Denon 3805

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#426407 - 08/19/17 11:12 AM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1783
Loc: Canada
7.1.4
Lol
_________________________
Sitting pretty.M80's still providing.4 paradigm subs, 12,10's & an 8.Still changing shit around.Lol.

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#426410 - 08/19/17 01:17 PM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
edvacdude Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 91
Loc: DFW, Texas
I subscribe the the 'more is better' idea as well, but would appreciate a little more color as to 'why'?

Thanks brwsaw.
_________________________
Axiom M80Ti,VP150,QS8(4)
HSU VTF-3 MK3
BenQ W1070, Panny DMP-BDT500, Sony CDPCX255, Denon 3805

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#426424 - 08/20/17 09:58 PM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
edvacdude Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 91
Loc: DFW, Texas
I see this referring to a 7.1.4 setup as a 'reference' arrangement, so I guess my question is answered by both brsaw and Dolby Labs!


Edited by edvacdude (08/20/17 10:40 PM)
_________________________
Axiom M80Ti,VP150,QS8(4)
HSU VTF-3 MK3
BenQ W1070, Panny DMP-BDT500, Sony CDPCX255, Denon 3805

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#426427 - 08/21/17 01:36 AM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5325
Loc: Marion, IA
As someone who has had an Atmos setup in my theater for about 18 months I can say this... Go 7.1.4. You will be lacking the full experience with only 2 overheads.

Heck, I would recommend 5.1.4 over 7.1.2 as well.

Don't get me started on non-direct radiating (monopole) surround speakers though...

I traded in 4 QS8s and got 4 M3s for surround duty too, but again, don't get me started. LOL

Get 4 M3 speakers overhead, drop down your surrounds like you mentioned, and give it a whirl.
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#426434 - 08/21/17 11:01 PM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
edvacdude Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 91
Loc: DFW, Texas
nickbuol, on the same page as far as four sets of ceiling speakers.

Now, not to start a 'holy war', but could you please help me understand the issues with the QS8s that I have for sides and rears if I were to reuse them in a 7.1.4 Atmos setup (assuming I lower them to ear level)?

In other words, did you have a chance to compare 4 QS8s for sides/rears with 4 M3s for the same areas?
_________________________
Axiom M80Ti,VP150,QS8(4)
HSU VTF-3 MK3
BenQ W1070, Panny DMP-BDT500, Sony CDPCX255, Denon 3805

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#426435 - 08/21/17 11:57 PM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5325
Loc: Marion, IA
Short version.

I had four QS8s for my (previously) 7.1 setup. It was great.

Dolby (highly) recommends mono-pole speakers for all locations in an Atmos setup.

I traded in all of my QS8s for on-wall M3s. It really helps Atmos (and DTS:X) to better pinpoint sounds within a 3D space.


Longer version:
Atmos uses sound object within movies, and it takes multiple speakers to create those object to defined points within the 3D space of your room. Using bi/di/quad-pole speakers doesn't allow a system (receiver or pre/pro that is processing the audio) to use pinpoint accuracy to create those sounds since they are designed to spread the sound all around into a surround space.

With all of that said, I am not saying that it couldn't work or even work well, but when I specifically asked a Dolby tech at CEDIA back when they announced Dolby Atmos for the home about bi/di/quad-pole speakers, and he really said that it was "less than ideal" and made sort of a grimacing face. That alone was enough to convince me to change out the speakers from quad-pole QS8s for mono-pole M3s. It cost me my four QS8s, a VP150 (I had upgraded a few years earlier to a VP180), some Axiom Bucks, a sale price, and still some money to do it, but in my opinion it was worth it for me. It may or may not be for you.

Keep in mind that you can always set things up with QS8s for now and see how you like it. You would need to lower the surround speakers either way, so that needs to happen regardless of the type of speaker, so you can try the QS8 setup with Atmos without any additional cost.
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#426437 - 08/22/17 01:45 AM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1783
Loc: Canada
Fwiw my argument wasn't for "more is better" but rather with 4 (or more) points above you it will work better as a system.
5.1 can be really good. 5.1.4 should be incredible.
I've gone back and forth between 5.1 and 7.1 and have had 5.1 layouts which were more immersive than most of the 7.1 layouts I've tried.
My poor mans atmos was to lower my towers to the ground, have my L&R (QS8's) surrounds with the bottom driver at ear height when seated and my rear surrounds (direct firing at the time) at ear height for my back row (18 inches higher than my QS8's).
The first time I watched Star Trek after the set up my head turned as a spear flew by me. When I watched Band of Brothers I was in a fox hole surrounded by troops crossing behind me and to my left while bullets wizzed by.
Atmos will be apart of any room I own in the future. My 7'2" ceiling height and lack of extra funds limit me at this time.
_________________________
Sitting pretty.M80's still providing.4 paradigm subs, 12,10's & an 8.Still changing shit around.Lol.

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#426650 - 09/20/17 10:14 PM Re: One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers? [Re: edvacdude]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
Like Nick, with Nicks recommendations, I have completely changed my setup slightly different than nick....4 Ceiling M3s and 4 M22 Onwalls for the walls. Of course I still have 80s across the front and 3 subs, moooo haaa haaaaa
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M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350
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