You are not logged in. [Log In]


Forums » General Discussion » What's New At Axiom » LFR1100 Active

Page 3 of 15 < 1 2 3 4 5 14 15 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#431737 - 04/07/19 05:30 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Ian]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5933
He really is running 5 ADAs per active LFR1100. It's a good assumption they're bridged. He must have them 50 feet apart and sitting at least that far away. I'm sitting 10 feet away from my M5s which are 10 feet apart, listening to Burning Down the House through my puny Pioneer at -10 and it's more than enough to rattle my rib cage. Clean too!

One ADA-1000 is more than enough for my M100s for either music or movies. That's at 13 feet away with the M100s 12 feet apart in a 4,200 cu. ft. room. With the ADA-1000/M100, I can turn my Onk up to 0dB and it's loud and clean! It's pretty cool but only tolerable for songs that are relatively quiet with huge swings. A real treat.

The 1500 is absolute insanity. I cannot shut it down and it brings the M3 and M5 to their knees. I am sure I could ignite the M3 with it and while Ian said to give the M5 all the 1500's love, I can't bring myself to do it. Not the M100 though although I am sure it's pretty close and the voice coils are gasping for air. Those HP drivers are looking like Marty Feldman's eyes. I had my muffs on and this time ear plugs as well but can still hear the huge, enveloping sound. The hairs on my arms were standing up like a werewolf in heat. LOL!
_________________________
M100,VP160,QS10HPx2,EP800,M5HP,M3,M50 v4
M80,VP150,QS8x4,EP600 v2
ADA-1000-2,3,1500-3
Air N2

Top
#431764 - 04/10/19 09:26 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Ian]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1053
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
Well, let's face it. Active LFR is a costly proposition. I guess there are going to be those who money doesn't really stand as an object when it comes to sound, but the question to be asked is would those people also not be part of the snobbery that would question the pedigree of Axiom and just buy into some more well-advertised brand that has better name recognition with their other snob minded acquaintances.

I have a pair of LFR1100s. I find that they do play quite well and can give me a whole load of enjoyment. I have tested an ADA1500 with my setup in my room and found no real advantage over the ADA1000 that I currently own.

I got an email from Axiom offering me to move up to Active. Why would I go on blind faith that it will be that much better? I know the side of diminishing returns and now that at this point in the curve that getting a small fraction better sound can cost quite a large investment in cash.

It comes back to the so misquoted statement that I made. The improvement in sound I got from going from an older set of speakers, in my case a pair of Energy C3, to a set of M3v4 speakers was gigantic. The M3 are about $600. The improvement from the M3 to M100 is there, but not 4 times better considering the cost of the speakers are over four times the price. If you moved to the LFR1100 your cost jumps up well over 10x the price.. do you honestly think you are getting that much jump in sound? Yes it is bigger and envelops you more. But it is a night and day better sound like going from a 12" black and white TV to a 100" 4k laster projection?

If I was to trade in my LFR1100 for an active system, I would want to take a listen with a blind A/B comparison to say yes I can hear an improvement over what I have now and it's worth the extra cash out of my pocket to get that sound.

I am just outside of Dwight for the next 4 days. If Ian wants to sell me on going Active, then show me what it can do.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

Top
#431767 - 04/10/19 10:29 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Ian]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5933
Well...let's see. The M3s can take 200W average and 800W peak. The M100s can take 600W average and 2400W peak. Not 4 times better but certainly 3 times...if your application calls for it.

The quality of the lows, mids and highs of the M3 cannot be compared with the M100. Once you hear the two beside one another, it's like night and day. A novice would very quickly pick the M100 over the M3. In fact, many novices have at my place. The 100s are more than 4 times better in this department.

You need twice the amplifier power with the M3 to get the same SPL as the M100.

The soundstage and imaging of the M100 though is definitely not 4 times better than the M3 but it is wider and taller. This is an amazing feat of engineering on Axiom's part. You will get very similar imaging and soundstage from the least to most expensive speaker. That soundstage and imaging is holographic! As you move up, you will get improved width, improved fidelity across the entire audible range, improved micro and macro dynamics and improved dynamic range. But the character of the entire family is the same. Bravo!

As for the LFRs, I don't know because I've never heard them.

If I had LFRs, I'd trade them in for the actives and if the actives weren't better in my space, back they'd go. I am willing to wager though, the active LFRs will image significantly better!

P.S. The 1000 can drive the M100s very loud and clean but it gives up long before the 1500. The 1500 also does a better job with the lows if playing the M100s full band. Of course this is all academic if your application doesn't need that kind of power. This is probably quite the same with the LFRs as you've found.

Top
#431768 - 04/10/19 10:47 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Ian]
bman84 Offline
veteran

Registered: 09/29/18
Posts: 178
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
How does one actually power all of those ADA's? I thought I was going nuts with building 4800W of circuit capacity into my media closet.
_________________________
Axiom M5HP,VP180,M3,ADA1000
Anthem MRX 720
SVS SB-3000 (dual)

Top
#431769 - 04/10/19 11:03 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Ian]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5933
If you are talking about powering a pair of the active LFR1100, you could use two, 5-channel ADA-1000s. That's likely no more than 1800W. That may work well for a medium size room or even a large room if you don't want to open it up too much.

Recall the nominal (average) power is far less than the peak. The breaker can take peaks without tripping.

Top
#431770 - 04/10/19 11:13 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Mojo]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1053
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
Originally Posted By Mojo
Well...let's see. The M3s can take 200W average and 800W peak. The M100s can take 600W average and 2400W peak. Not 4 times better but certainly 3 times...if your application calls for it.


So by your logic, a 600hp BMW M5 is a far better car to drive than my 140hp Kia Niro. Yes, it is far more expensive and has better specs all around, but put them both on an LA freeway in rush hour and I bet you'd far prefer the Niro as it gets to use the HOV lanes. Power is meaningless unless you are in an environment that lets you use it.

Originally Posted By Mojo
The quality of the lows, mids and highs of the M3 cannot be compared with the M100. Once you hear the two beside one another, it's like night and day. A novice would very quickly pick the M100 over the M3. In fact, many novices have at my place. The 100s are more than 4 times better in this department.


I just call utter bullshit on that! Yes the M100 can produce a lower low. But the mids and highs are not that far off. Again, I gather that you when doing your demo are following the Spinal Tap and running your amp to 11. At realistic listening volumes in an average sized room, the two are not that far apart. Not everybody wants or has the need to listen at 100db of sound. And I think that is why I can't seem to take most of your sound rants seriously as I feel you are living in your own world that the vast majority of the rest of the population simply don't.

I still don't see the point of spending my money unless I know that it will give me something in return.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

Top
#431771 - 04/10/19 11:37 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Ian]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5933
I suggest you read my posts a little more carefully.

The M3 and M100 are indeed on opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to fidelity across the entire audible range. That holds true at any SPL from -25 on my Onk and up. Of course this depends on how critical you want to be about fidelity but I can tell you those who have listened to mine side-by-side are not at all critical when it comes to sound, and they immediately pick the M100. Not so between the M3 and M5 but even there, when they listen more closely, they pick the M5.

If you're familiar with my posts, you'd know I don't listen loud. All my buds listen even lower because they're quite sensitive to SPL.

As for my posts, I lived for almost 12 years with my shitty v2. I have great reason to celebrate over my v4 which are at least an order of magnitude better than v2. How about celebrating with me?

Top
#431772 - 04/11/19 02:40 AM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: MatManhasgone]
Ian Offline
President
connoisseur

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1301
Hi Matt,

I would be careful not to confuse the cost of the amplification with the speakers. For $5,700 you get both omnidirectional speakers and two fully balanced DSPs capable of controlling 10 individual channels. In a smaller room where you would not be throwing a party, two ADA1000-5 amplifiers would be loads of power for the LFR1100 Actives. You already know what the passive version of the LFR1100s can do so I would think of it from the perspective that for around $700 more dollars plus some extra amp channels you can take things up one more notch. And beyond that I would put out the challenge that you may not be able actually buy a better sounding pair of speakers for any price.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

Top
#431773 - 04/11/19 02:49 AM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: bman84]
Ian Offline
President
connoisseur

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1301
Hi bman84,

As Mojo mentioned it is all about the available peak power to avoid any possibility of amp clipping no matter the dynamic range of the source material. The actual continuous power consumption will be easily handled by a normal wall circuit. This said, I don't think you would want to turn on all the amps at the same time or the inrush current may cause the breaker to blow. There is a lot of capacitance there to handle those dynamic peaks looking for an initial charge.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

Top
#431787 - 04/11/19 10:48 PM Re: LFR1100 Active [Re: Ian]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6208
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Oh my... I just noticed these are ready. Given that I haven't had time to unpack and set up my LFR1100's yet I am thinking hard about trading up to the actives. I have always been a big fan of bi- and tri-amping, although one of the attractions was being able to crank the volume up until the bass was clipping without frying the tweeters. I don't do that no more... trying to save the last of my hearing.

I ordered a 4 channel ADA1500 with the LFR's, so thinking about maybe using that for woofers and front mids then adding a 6-channel ADA1000 for the rest.

I always used to run larger amps for the lower frequency channels so that might be an option here as well, but don't know if ADA1000 and 1500 have compatible gain and polarity (ADA1000 is 1.2v for full output while ADA1500 is 2V for full output so it seems promising).

Originally Posted By Ian
This said, I don't think you would want to turn on all the amps at the same time or the inrush current may cause the breaker to blow.

I feel stupid asking this since I own a (still in box) ADA1500, but are the ADA power switches mechanical or electronic ? Thinking about the situation where you get a power outage then power comes back on again... although I suppose in that case the caps might maintain enough charge to limit the inrush. I guess that leads to a "do you only turn ADAs on when using them or leave them on 24/7 ?" question that belongs in another thread.

Yes, email already sent to Debbie.


Edited by bridgman (04/11/19 10:55 PM)
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti
M5HP, M40
LFR1100, soon to be active
EP500, PC+ 20-39

Top
Page 3 of 15 < 1 2 3 4 5 14 15 >

Moderator:  alan, Andrew, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 
Forum Stats

15,334 Registered Members
16 Forums
24,193 Topics
427,711 Posts

Most users ever online:
883 @ 03/04/17 05:06 PM

Top Posters
Ken.C 18044
pmbuko 16437
SirQuack 13611
CV 11734
MarkSJohnson 11445
0 registered ()
271 Guests and
2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup