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Weird dream
#433983 10/26/19 09:06 AM
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Was tempted to put this in "What's new at Axiom"...

So without pre-amble I found myself in an Axiom listening room, with Ian and <someone I didn't recognize> about to show off some new mains. LFR1100 size but not sure what they were.

What caught my eye though was the subwoofers. One in each corner, with what appeared to be an 18-24" woofer in each. The woofer cone seemed relatively conventional, but the surround was more like the kind of material you see wrapped around the hose you plug into a built-in vacuum cleaner system.

Electronics were switched on, and the cone slowly pulled back maybe 2 feet into the subwoofer enclosure, then pushed out almost as much before settling back into normal position.

I asked Ian how that could possibly work and how the cone stayed in the correct position... he didn't say anything about why the cone didn't fall over but pulled out some plots and explained that all the new subs had this driver surround, and that without it you got distortion here and here (points to glitches on the charts) at 7 Hz and high SPLs.

The system sounded great though, and the cones didn't move anywhere near as much as they did during power-on.

If Ian ever *does* make those subs, we'll have to get a couple out to Mojo for a video shoot. Or a dance-off.

Last edited by bridgman; 10/26/19 09:06 AM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: Weird dream
bridgman #433986 10/26/19 02:38 PM
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Memories, dreams, reflections...as teens we dream of fleshy things. As we age, pulsating drivers take over.

I think when you first asked Ian your question, that was your brain hinting that the dancing M100 drivers in my video were experiencing severe distortion. That is actually very true because drivers are not supposed to roll around like that. I can play that same tune on the 800, feed it all my Onk has got, and both voice coils stay within their respective magnetic gaps leading to linear pistonic action rather than gyrations.

The M100s are simply not rated to operate down to 10Hz. The fact I can pump that tune into them, in 2.0, at 1800W+ peaks per channel and not rip apart the drivers from their surrounds or cook their voice coils is a testament to their engineering.

Edit: they also didn't sound bad. That's another Axiom secret. You hear it in their speakers and amplifiers. You're simply not offended or surprised when their products are pushed beyond specified limits.

Last edited by Mojo; 10/26/19 02:42 PM.

A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Weird dream
bridgman #434003 10/27/19 06:35 AM
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Reminds me of a thread a couple years ago where some one was worried about running a pair of M3 as large in a 2 channel.

At one point Ian chimed in. And very scientifically said something along the lines of You can not damage our woofers due to design foresights of such occurrences.

It was very straight forward and very confident {Years of facts/studies}
Now that you've resurfaced the vid I'm sure they would have contacted you if you needed to worry.

Re: Weird dream
bridgman #434023 10/28/19 01:26 AM
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I don't think you can cook an M3 with a typical receiver unless you play test tones but I can sure as shit light it on fire with a 1500 and good ol' music. Not a 1000 though. I tried. smile


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Weird dream
Mojo #434025 10/28/19 02:25 AM
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One of the dream systems that one can do with Axiom is 5 or 7 M3's and an EP800. A seamless soundstage and 13 Hz bass, with not a hint of congestion at even high level SPL.

Re: Weird dream
bridgman #434028 10/28/19 02:40 AM
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I'd do that for movies. Music needs improved mids though unless you like your music to be more "M3-like".


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Weird dream
craigsub #434029 10/28/19 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted By craigsub
One of the dream systems that one can do with Axiom is 5 or 7 M3's and an EP800. A seamless soundstage and 13 Hz bass, with not a hint of congestion at even high level SPL.

Are you thinking 5.1 / 7.1 or something else? And why not an EP600? (same low end just not as loud).

Re: Weird dream
rrlev #434030 10/28/19 02:50 AM
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From 80 Hz and up, 5 M3's will play louder than a single EP800. Keep in mind, it requires 16 times the movement of air at 20 Hz than it does at 80.

Re: Weird dream
bridgman #434031 10/28/19 02:59 AM
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Most posts on here go non-linear and this one thankfully is no exception.


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Weird dream
craigsub #434036 10/28/19 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted By craigsub
From 80 Hz and up, 5 M3's will play louder than a single EP800. Keep in mind, it requires 16 times the movement of air at 20 Hz than it does at 80.

What is the proposed set up for the M3s?
And are we talking reasonable volumes for a reasonable use case?

I was assuming you were originally proposing a cost effective great sounding system

Re: Weird dream
rrlev #434037 10/28/19 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted By rrlev
What is the proposed set up for the M3s?

I assumed he was thinking "5 M3's and a pair of EP800's" smile


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: Weird dream
bridgman #434038 10/28/19 04:27 AM
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Geez, what the hell's going on here? It's like everyone's talking gibberish.

Craig's talking about a 5.1 or 7.1 with M3s and an 800. He's got no experience with a 600 but knows the 800 is like manna from heaven.

John, please stop dreaming and carry on setting up your actives. And Rich, it would be sweet if you stopped procrastinating and just pulled the trigger on those eight 800s already. smile


Last edited by Mojo; 10/28/19 04:29 AM.

A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Weird dream
Mojo #434039 10/28/19 05:18 AM
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Sorry, I was thinking Craig was proposing something different like stacked M3s ...

if it’s a normal surround setup then only the 2 front speaker are playing for music (unless your into the music surround formats) and for movies maybe the front 3. The surrounds rarely get overly loud. (Just trying to figure out what Craig was matching the 800 to)

Reasonable volume will probably never exceed the output of a single EP600 in a small to medium sized room (which goes along with using m3s) ... another thought on matching the sub to the need ... And I assume money is a factor ...


Mojo ... your the stacker ... not me
Only reason I need more then one sub is for bass smoothing ... (at least for now)

Last edited by rrlev; 10/28/19 05:26 AM.
Re: Weird dream
rrlev #434040 10/28/19 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted By rrlev
Sorry, I was thinking Craig was proposing something different like stacked M3s .


Oh ho ho LMAO. You've been watching too much of the Mojo channel. laugh


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Weird dream
bridgman #434042 10/28/19 11:35 AM
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I currently have a temporary setup of a pair of M22 with a mirage sub (from my old 1990 system) and a pair of M3s for surrounds. No center. This is actually a very good budget system which i’d recommend to my non-audio obsessed friends for a small or mid sized rooms.

M22s left/right, Ep500, QS8s. (Skip the center)

if the M22s imaged well in your room OR if they were close together relative to your seating getting rid of the center, I think, is a sonic improvement. Next budget trade of would be to go with an less expensive EP as most people I know are not as bass obsessed as my friends here ...

Re: Weird dream
bridgman #434049 10/28/19 01:34 PM
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I had some weird dreams last night. I slept in my van with the furnace off. Got down to 20 degrees F; 1.4 degrees with wind chill. Surprisingly hot under 4 sleeping bags. Rocked to sleep in a clearing by 50 mi/hr winds.


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Weird dream
Mojo #435332 01/18/20 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Mojo
I had some weird dreams last night. I slept in my van with the furnace off. Got down to 20 degrees F; 1.4 degrees with wind chill. Surprisingly hot under 4 sleeping bags. Rocked to sleep in a clearing by 50 mi/hr winds.


Do you live near this guy ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5B-9YiU5Ao


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: Weird dream
bridgman #435333 01/18/20 11:33 PM
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Isn't this the same guy they found on the top of a 70 foot pine when his propane tank blew up while he was sleeping in his van?


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
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