You are not logged in. [Log In]


Forums » General Discussion » Stereo » Out with the new and in with the newer

Page 29 of 31 < 1 2 27 28 29 30 31 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#435443 - 01/23/20 03:59 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
bman84 Offline
local

Registered: 09/29/18
Posts: 202
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
I think you guys are biased by your new found amazement for the M2's (reverse confirmation bias)? Double-blind testing is needed.
_________________________
Axiom M5HP VP180 M3 ADA1000
Anthem MRX 720
SVS SB-3000 (dual)

Top
#435444 - 01/23/20 04:26 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
I'd love to do a double-blind, controlled test of the M2s with sub against the M5s with and without a sub.

In my living room, the M2s win with no sub because the M5s boom like crazy at normal listening volumes. At lower volumes, the M5s win. Those volumes though are too low to elicit an emotional response.

A real good question is "Would you be happy with the M2s in the living room over the active LFRs?" Now that I hear both in my living room, this is a very tough question believe it or not. In almost every respect the actives are orders of magnitude better. But that width I get with the M2s is very addictive. Also, even though the M2s are more spatially resolving than the M3 or M50 as I described in a previous post, they are like an M3 when compared to the active LFRs. So in this regard, when I just want to relax and not have to analyze, the M2s are better.

I suppose what I am trying to convey in all of this is that the Axiom v4 is all really damned good and all in their own damning way. It's best to just chill and listen but that's really hard when I have them all here and can analyze until I'm paralyzed. smile

I actually really enjoy having discovered all this.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#435445 - 01/23/20 06:35 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
Another buddy of mine just left after listening to the M2s in the living room. This is the same one who thought it was my M100s that were going when it was the M2s in my 4,200 cu. ft. space. He said it was just sick how the M2s were projecting right out to my side-walls. He asked me to turn off the sub so he can hear just the M2s. But the sub wasn't on; no cable going to it and not plugged in. This of course he had to check for himself. He was amazed how song after song, he could not locate the M2s because they acoustically disappear. And why shouldn't they? With their curves and diminutive size, they are like a point source.

He saw the espresso finish in daylight and fell in love with it. He swore he'd never put speakers in his living room but these M2s have now changed his mind.

I never quite clued into the fact that Axioms mids are mid-woofers until I got these M2s.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#435447 - 01/23/20 08:28 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
I have another interesting observation. I've been using the M100s in my main room since I got them. With the M2 acquisition, I took all fronts out of my main room except for the M2s and M5s. I've noticed with either of those, my QS10s are casting images towards the front that were not there with the M100s. This is a very, very cool effect for both music and movies. I perceive PLII and other surround formats as more natural. Almost like there is more space for each speaker to do its job. I surmise the large soundscape from the M100s is drowning out some of the surround radiation even in this large 4,200 cu. ft. space.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#435450 - 01/24/20 02:30 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
It doesn't really matter how I position these M2s, they sound great no matter what while pulling a disappearing act. The tweeters are currently 6" below my ears and I've tried them at various heights with equally great results.

_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#435455 - 01/24/20 06:25 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
Given my recent experience with M2s in my living room, I am revising my speaker recommendations. These recommendations are to hit up to 104dBC "audibly cleanly" at MLP with minimal spend. None of this is scientific; it's my observations/notes:

A. Passive bi-polars

1. For rooms less than 1800 cu. ft., M2s without a sub.

2. For MLP <= 10 feet: M5 or M60 without a sub; M2 with a sub in rooms larger than 1800 cu. ft.

3. For 10 feet < MLP <= 12 feet: M5 or M60HP without a sub; M2 with a sub in rooms larger than 1800 cu. ft.

4. For 12 feet < MLP <= 15 feet: M80HP without a sub; M80 with a sub

5. For 15 feet < MLP <= 18 feet: M100 without a sub; M80HP with a sub

B. Active LFR1100

Use when you have the following needs:

1. The highest possible spatial resolution in any size room
2. Unrivaled bass and mid-bass reproduction
3. Unrivaled macro and micro-dynamics from quiet to riot listening levels
4. Unrivaled soundstage depth
5. MLP greater than 21 feet.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#435456 - 01/24/20 07:42 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
Here is how much better the active LFR1100 is relative to M3, M50, M2, M5, M100v4 within their operating limits. All impressions are within my 1800 cu. ft. living room at a 10 foot MLP, driven with ADAs. These impressions may change once I get the actives into my much larger basement.

Spatial resolution (imaging) - 20 times better than M3, M50. 4 times better than M2, M5, M100.

Soundstage depth: 2 times better than all the others

Soundstage width: 4 times better than M3, M50. On par with M2, M5. 2 times better than M100.

Bass reproduction: Infinitely better than all others. It has to be heard to be believed.

Mid-range reproduction: Infinitely better than all others for lower registers. Infinitely better than M3 and M50 across the entire range. About the same as M2, M5 and M100 for middle and upper registers.

Treble reproduction: 4 times better than M3, M50. Better than M2 and marginally better than M5 and M100 but it's difficult to say by how much.

Ease of playing well with room modes: Infinitely easier than M3, M50, M5 and M100. On par with M2.

Ability to disappear: About the same as M3, M50, M100 and M5. Not nearly as good as the M2.

Performance under "quiet listening" conditions: infinitely better than all others.

Ability to image off-MLP: significantly worse than all others*.

I really don't know how to judge micro and macrodynamics quantitatively so I won't even bother. What I can say is the actives feel like they are starting and stopping notes faster making for a more emotionally rewarding experience.

The above quantities are not weighted. You may want to place more weight on some attributes compared to others.

*Craig has talked about the ability to use the actives without a center when listening off-axis. A reviewer who listened to the passive 1100s made a similar comment. I haven't found that. My imaging, including the center image, collapses when I move out of the MLP. This may change when I get them into the basement and can place them further away from me and away from the front wall. This is actually a feature that doesn't matter to me.

Also remember the actives can reach extremely dangerous SPLs. There is dynamic limiting taking place in the passives that really is not evident until the actives are heard.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#435463 - 01/25/20 03:21 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
Here I am at my friend's with her walnut natural satin M5s which she is so happy with in her space. She wanted FMSs but I discouraged her so she can save up and buy a nice sub someday or a new receiver. Instead, $5 at IKEA gets you the one foot high, very stable stools you see pictured. We stuck the Axiom gel pads on the M5s and felt furniture pads on the stool legs. Without both of those, the M5s resonated into the hardwood floor. They are perfect now.

Now you might say "Mojo, that's just too damned low" but I now know better and can tell you the M5s disappear much better and the images they cast are even more surreal when the mids and tweets are low.

I can sit off MLP and still enjoy good imaging. They sound so good. It's been quite an adventure for her starting off with my Bose 601s thinking they're so amazing, realizing how much she was missing when she moved to the M3v4 and finally finding Nirvana with the M5.






_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#435474 - 01/25/20 10:02 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 3271
Loc: CA, USA
Hello Mojo

What kind of music are you using to compare the sound quality of these speakers?

What source?

Preamp/phonostage?

Best regards
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

Top
#435477 - 01/25/20 11:00 PM Re: Out with the new and in with the newer [Re: Mojo]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7047
Phil, you will laugh.

At my friend's, my 15 year-old Denon 2105 and Spotify Premium coming from her TCL TV via optical.

In my living room, Spotify Premium over Chromecast Audio, through a Pioneer A9 receiver (the good, dual mono one). The active LFRs via a 1000-8 and 1000-2 with the Pioneer's pre-outs.

In the basement, Spotify Premium over Firestick 4K, through an Onk, then 1500-3.

As for music, it's all over the map. Jazz, rock, blues, acoustic, orchestral, classical,...
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
Page 29 of 31 < 1 2 27 28 29 30 31 >

Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 
Forum Stats

15,390 Registered Members
16 Forums
24,295 Topics
430,387 Posts

Most users ever online:
2,082 @ 01/22/20 10:43 AM

Top Posters
Ken.C 18044
pmbuko 16437
SirQuack 13659
CV 11741
MarkSJohnson 11445
0 registered ()
569 Guests and
2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup