Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Audio Advice - My Dad used to post here a ton

My dad passed away in august, and although I'm quite the audio lady myself (21), im kinda at a loss. We just had the floors redone & I rewired everything myself and got all the remaining wires routed through the walls and in individual tests all the speakers are live working well. However it seems as some of the settings for the surround aren't right anymore the surround speakers and rear sub seem quiet? Im not getting the same immersive experience that my dad had set up previously & looking for some guidance. (This could also just be me not watching the movies loud enough too but my mom agrees, sounds different)

Ive listed the current channel levels from the Denon beside the corresponding speaker, I understand this is really dependent on space, position & personal preference but any guidance would be very appreciated.
All speakers are between 10-11ft from seated position. Floors were swapped from carpet to a textured vinyl faux wood thing i'm thinking this may also be the culprit for the sound change.

Denon AVS-3312CI

Left/Right: M80Ti (bi wire) | -6.0db
Centre:VP150 | +12 db
Rear Sub EP600 | -12db
Surround: QS4 ? (they're mounted so can't check the label) | 0.0db

Thanks for any advice/knowledge!!


* Edit* My dad was known on here as Real80sMan.

You sound like you know what you're doing (way to go Dad!) but have to ask since you didn't say - did you re-run the receiver's speaker calibration after the room was redone? If not, that might help; but I also think you're on target that the vinyl/carpet swap is the driver here.

If recalibration isn't the problem, then then only other thing I can think of is that the M80ti (all the *ti's) were thought to be a little more harsh than what came after (the ti's are a few generations back). That may not have mattered when you had carpet dampening the sound, but may be exacerbated now that you have reflective tile. So you might consider trying out a new v4 version of the M60/M80s.

I didn't know your Dad, but it's always nice to see generations stopping by.

Sorry to hear. Your dad was a long time member and a very nice guy.

Right off the bat I can say the center channel speaker level seems very high. The new hard floor sound reflection is also going to magnify that. Your listening volume in room is going to be heavily biased to the center channel’s direction and the other channels are going to seem far too quiet.

If you have an ipad I suggest downloading an spl measuring app. For basic system setup it doesnt have to be anything fancy (like audiotools by studio six digital). You are just looking to balance the net spl between each channel using the test tones in the receiver.

In the setup menu select manual speaker setup. Enter each channelsdjstance from the center viewing position and the speaker size. Select small for all with a sub crossover point of 80hz. Select “none” for rear channels if it is a 7.1 receiver.

Using the app, set measurement weighting to ‘C’ (dBC) . Beginning with the center channel, set the output trim level in the menu so your spl reading in room is 75db. If you have to go past +5-8 db or so use a setting of 65db instead. Repeat for all channels except subwoofer.

Turn the crossover/low pass dial on your subwoofer to full clockwise open (the crossover is set in the receiver menu). Turn the volume dial to 1/2 to start. Using the test tone in the menu, set the sub level +3 db hotter than your largest speaker. ie. If your fron left channel was set to 65db, set the sub to 68db.

Put on music you are familiar with and listen. If you are able to hear all the details in the music like guitar strings or breath on the singers voice you are good. If they are masked by too much bass turn the sub dial down a hair on the back of the sub. Test again. If too lean in the bass turn up a hair. Sub settings are extremely room and preference dependant so there really is no one size fits all answer. Placing the sub inside either the front left or right channel up front is a great idea if possible.

Popular setup tracks I use often are

Toto- Rosanna
Level 42- Something About You
Barenaked Ladies- Brian Wilson
Crash Test Dummies- God Shuffled his feet

Expect lots of great help. Welcome to the boards.

Sorry to hear about your dad. I saw your dad's screen name enough over the years, and I have nothing but a positive impression of him. Welcome to our ranks.

Besides hearing each of the speakers in setup with test tones, can you confirm they're operating when playing actual content? It sounds like you're saying they are, only quieter than before. Besides the flooring change, did any speaker positions change, or did the listening position change? Also, does the receiver display what surround mode(s) you're in when playing material? Out of curiosity, what are your sources for movies/music/etc.? Just trying to get a fuller picture of your use.

My first instinct is to suggest re-running Audyssey setup and compare it being on vs off, as well as Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ when Audyssey is on. Certainly follow TrevorM's manual setup instructions first. I personally don't use Audyssey and simply use it to set levels/distances, but if you're not listening to movies loudly, Audyssey's Dynamic EQ might give you what you're looking for.

Amelia, I am very very sorry to hear about your father. I had always wondered what happened to him.

You've been given very good advice already. The easiest thing you can possibly do is use your Denon's built-in Audyssey calibration and the set-up microphone. I have found Audyssey gives me great results with a 3-position measurement - one at the main listening position, one close to my left ear and another close to my right.

Let us know how it all works out.

Not to share too much but it was Cancer - prognosis said 3 months - he kicked it for another year on top of that with lots of tunes!

This is great, I'm beyond impressed with the breadth of knowledge here!
The auto calibration was pretty whack sounding (I figured it would be pretty off from what I was looking for but not as bad as it was - set it back to the settings given above which is saying something). After work today I will be pulling out his calibration mic and the iPad, this made me feel pretty confident that I can nail it! Thank you!

The receiver is 7.1 how does this affect the rear sub as its the only thing in that back channel with it being set to none - and moving it is not really an option my mom would lose it with another front speaker haha.

Re: Cork Thank you as well - good point I've been looking to possibly upgrade the M80s as that's something my dad had mentioned as well.

I'm so thankful for all the tips for the manual calibration Im very excited to get it all figured out.
Glad to know I was on the right track with the flooring, I definitely seems the AVR must have reset when I unplugged it (ugh) because you're correct the centre channel was a LOT. Theres no way my dad had it set that high especially with how loud we were always cranking the system.

I will post an update once I've got it sorted. (Love the song choices - & thanks again!)

The subwoofer is connected to the “sub” or “ LFE” rca output on the rear of the receiver via an rca cable. It is a discrete channel during 5.1 playback and all channels’ bass will be sent there below your crossover setting of 80hz if channels are set to small.

The sub location in the rear doesnt make it a rear channel. Still the sub channel. -Its just another place to hide the sub in your case.

All the folks here are pretty knowledgable. Glad to help!

Damn, sorry about your dad. He was always very helpful and polite.

As others have mentioned, you should run the Dennon's set up program again. I'm old school, apparently...... I have what is now considered - old tech, even though I bought it new many years ago. I still use it, even though all my audio processors have their own mics. I suggest you hop on over the eBay and find one. They are Radio Shack SPL meters. I prefer the digital readout, verse swing needle. I see there are a few available. Heck, I bet your dad has one stashed somewhere. You can then use it to verify speaker/sub levels after the Dennon does its thing. Grab a tape measure too. You'll want to verify the setup settings. If your sub distance comes out 10 feet or so beyond its actual distance, leave it. Sometimes, the sub channel needs a 'delay', due to processing lags.

I am so sorry to hear about Shawn. He joined these forums back about the time I did and I really enjoyed exchanging posts and ideas as we both grew our Axiom hobby.

Thoughts and Prayers to you and your family! Shawn will be missed.

Randy

I wonder what happened.

Just saw this post myself (Axiom please bring back the tabs/links for active threads and unanswered threads, etc. The forum is too hard to follow having to click on each and every main header to see what people have posted most current).

Megs, the lads have provided some good info as is typical on the Axiom forums (some exceptions, [ahem ahem]).

My deepest condolences re: your father. Shawn was a lovely fellow, easily outgoing as far as i could tell. Had the chance to meet him and asked his advice on some HVAC stuff over the years. His time here was too short. He will be missed.
Will raise a pint in honour to the lad, hjis life and his excellent audio legacy, this evening!
Slainte.

Everyone has different reference music but i have to say, the quality of the Barenaked Ladies -Gordon album is really quite good. I use songs from that album as a reference for critical listening.