Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers?

It is almost impossible to build any room without some compromise somewhere. If you already have the items I would go ahead and put them in.

The round M3's do just fine for ceiling applications. It's not like there's that much data that gets sent to them, so worrying about having the best full-range speaker over your head just doesn't matter that much. I have two rows, and they are 4' apart, with my single row of seats placed equidistant to both rows of speakers. Even with them being this close together, I can detect the directional movement of objects over my head. I use M3 on walls for my side and rear surround channels - all as close to ear level as I could get them. Good Atmos tracks sound pretty amazing. I definitely get the whole "bubble" of sound thing Atmos touts.

Except in video games.

In ceilings should be as capable as the side and rear surround channels in a setup. Ideally all channels should overlap the subwoofer crossover frequency by a half octave.

Ie. crossing at 80hz means you want speakers capable to 45-50hz if possible.

If you need more low end output, look into an open back option and build a back box. Using Roxul comfortboard 80 is a great choice. It will friction fit in the joist space. Stiff, acts as a back wave absorber, and knocks down sound transmission into next floor.

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It's hard to believe the difference a higher fidelity speaker makes for surround duty until you hear it. One of the reasons I'm not entertaining Atmos is low ceilings. I figure I need 6 feet of distance from ears to the ceiling for proper driver integration.

This has been a great discussion and it makes me think about using M5OW as surround channels. M3OW would be fine in my space, as they are each 8’ or so from the MLP. If I get full integration at 8’ they will be M5OW.

I will take some measurements on the vertical plane and post the graphs here. If in fact there is an integration distance in which all drivers essentially blend evenly off vertical axis I will let you know. I dont believe this works with an M5 but will an M3.

Mojo with low ceilings and closeplacement the M3IC may be fine for you as in Michaeld’s setup. Pretty sure his room is set up properly so I would trust his input.

Trevor thanks again for the plans. We have already started to plan to build out the areas in the basement to make it more symmetrical. Wife is completely on board with the changes and it was easy to sell her on the equipment room to clean everything out from under the tv except the center channel. We are going to pull down the insulation for the overheads to make sure ducts and gas lines won't be in the way. I think we are going to move the QS10s as rear room zone 2 speakers to play music once I get the room changed and ready to set up the m3ow. I saw Mojo's comment up top and I was thinking along the lines of timber matching, would m5ow be a better option for the surrounds or is the distancing in my room better suited for the m3ow?

Yes, you can do that. Just make sure your tweeter when mounted in the end is at no higher than 5'. 4ft better. If they end up in my room I will plan for an inverted install. (My roughin was originally for wall brackets at 5')

Based on measurements taken this morning, using M5HP as surrounds is best if you can mount them low enough that you are +/- 10 degrees on the tweeter axis to ear height. They measured exceptionally well at 10 degrees under the listener axis. (Mojo does a cartwheel. ) Like other multiway speakers, they lobe under the tweeter axis a bit (but pretty acceptable actually.)

The horizontal plot was pretty consistent out to 20 degrees. Easily within a +/- 5db in room window.

+/- 20 vert degrees is more peaky in the response. Of course, I am being fussy. All in all they measured pretty dang well in a real room at 1m. Measurements confirmed they are designed to be listened to on axis horizontally and vertically.

The average of plots in each direction were exceptional. +/- 2.5db in room at 1m.

I will be putting M5OW in my room as surrounds at some point. I would not use them on a ceiling.

If anyone wants the files feel free to PM me with an email address and I will send you a zipped folder with all the plots. The M5HPs measured very well. Again, what a speaker. The averages will give you an idea of in room response above 200hz.

Average Horizontal- On axis to 30 degrees. Below 200hz ignore. Room loading near corner.



Average Vertical- On axis to +/-30 degrees. Below 200hz ignore. Room loading near corner.



Honey Axis listener +10 degrees above tweeter. The Mojo Axis.



Danger territory. 20 degrees below tweeter. Below 200hz ignore. Room loading near corner.

Sorry, I didn't really answer your question.

No, I don't think timber is as important as everyone worries about within reason.

Best thing to do is stick to speakers with similar response\output or use a sophisticated calibration setup like Dirac if not. Not worth getting stuck on IMO. The speakers in your design will match just fine (ceilings included.)

I use 3 different brands in my theater right now.

Oh, just thought of a couple of data points on in-ceilings I should share:

• the tweeter can be aimed no-more then 10 degrees or so before hitting the grill. If you have one you can tell us the exact number (All mine are installed and I'm too lazy to get a ladder and experiment).
• with the speakers 9' apart I still get a decent image when my ear is 4' from the ceiling when centered between them.

Trever,

Interesting charts ... guess the real question is can you hear it?
Now I'm going to have listening to all the speakers at various heights... luckily it's a quick and easy thing to try.

On the inverted install: does that mean you'll put the tweeters 10 degrees above ear level? That sounds interesting. If I do it the other way some surrounds might be blocked by furniture ... on the other hand it reduces the separation between the beds and heights (might be able to move the heights more into the room if I put them in and it's a problem).

P.S. I'll have to try that LARSA module ...