Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M3 Powered vs KEF LSX Wireless?

Hey Guys, Costco has KEF LSX on sale for 999 and just in time I was looking for something powered for my computer/work setup at home. Conventional wisdom says that 6.5" drivers on M3 vs 4.5" drivers on KEF says go for M3 and maybe even save a few hundred bucks.

I have Axioms M80 towers since 2013, best thing I had heard until recently when replaced my car audio system with ARC audio AMP and Focal speakers (forget the exact model), those in car Focal give M80 towers a run for their money, and honestly beat them, they aren't as loud as M80 but treble, seperation and puchy bass far outweighs M80s. So honestly got me asking, should I go Axiom again or try something again.

So in that what are your thoughts between KEF LSX vs M3. I hate to just order both and return one even though both Axiom and Costco have great return policies; so thought throw this out here.

All in all, my car audio system and M80s convinced me to throw away my crappy logitech (although ont he hgigher end of logitech) thats been my computer staple for past 10 years.

Don't go wireless for either brand. Get these and a decent sub for the office. I use them with a cheap, Sony 12 inch sub and love them. Save money over the other options and it will sound better.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/bst-46

are you looking at the M3 computer speakers that Axiom sells? I have a pair of them and the only big issue that i had with them was that the volume control for the unit was on the back of the speakers.

I have both a PC and a Mac. if you hook the speakers up to the PC, then the windows volume control works just the way you'd expect it to. But on my Mac, the volume is looked at 100%. so the digital output is sent at full volume and the Mac expects the speaker itself to do the volume control. This is what you'd expect if it was a digital usb output to feed a stereo receiver that is connected.

Other than that, the speakers actually sound amazing. I ended up re-purposing them for speakers that I can take outside when I have friends over. hooked them up with a raspberry pi and volumio and they work great.

If your using the DAC in the Mac or PC ... i.e. analog out then the volume on the either computer should work.
If your connecting to an external DAC you want to control the volume at the DAC. You don't want to use a software volume control and send the digital signal at less than full volume. You'd loss quality.

Perhaps there is a way of controlling an external DAC's volume from the computer ... it would make sense that some standard might exist.

Thanks for the adive guys.

Matt, yes I was looking at the computer speakers. Infact I got the KEF delivered today and am debating if I should also get M3 Computer to compare. KEF do sound great, I think they need a sub but still have no context on how they compare with M3 Computer.

I remember being rather intrigued with KEF and their putting the tweeter inside the mid/woofer driver. I can remember them doing this back int the 1990's so it's not something that is new for them. How it has improved over the years I don't know, but I do know I have listened to them years back, and concluded it wasn't what I liked. At the time, I went with Celestian speakers over the Kef.

3-4 years ago, I bought the M3 Computer speakers after getting and liking the sound from Axioms M80 and later he LFR1100. I am not a sound speaker reviewer, not a trained professional sound engineer. I am just a regular person who happens to really like music and am willing to pay a bit more to get good sound if I can.

The M3 computer speakers really did give some impressive sound. I think they are a great compromise to give a good feeling of bass that many smaller bookshelf and computer specific speakers that I have tested before lacked without adding in a sub woofer into the mix. I also found that many of the speakers even if you did add in a sub, didn't allow for a good crossover mix as to be totally honest, a computer setup isn't the best acoustically designed space for listening. You have the speakers rather close to you, or likely more closer than you would in a seated listening setup. You have a hard surface desk with your computer on it that messes up how the sound travels to you. I found that a sub under a desk at close proximity didn't mix well with any speakers that I tried. What the M3 did do was give enough of a bass bump in a pleasurable range to give me a sound (that likely wasn't accurate at all) but was very pleasing to my ears with just enough added bass that you didn't feel you were missing something but without any harshness.

If you are listening to your Kef and as you have said, you think they need a sub, then clearly they are running well in the mid/tweeter higher frequency ranges, but don't have enough of the lower 120-85 power that most people feel is bass. I am sure I will be totally flamed by some of the other regulars on this forum for my opinions. They are mine and free for anyone to take them at face value.

Thanks Matt, How is the imaging on M3, LSX feel really good, I can visualize vocals in front, percussion to left or voilin to the right of vocals. If imaging is as good as these KEF then M3 are a winner, below why I must return these KEF.

One of those things no review covers, they cut out during placback for 100-200ms couple of times a minute and then it will be fine for hours, then it starts again. Its not a wireless issue either as they have an option of connecting L/R channel via signal wire, which is what I have done. Its completely unacceptable. Some forum said wifi causes that issue so I got them hooked via ethernet, same thing.

I freakin' advised you dude to not buy anything wireless. It don't matter if you've connected it up via ethernet. The shit don't work and I knew you'd have problems. I also advised you to get the less expensive M1 computer speakers with a sub. The M2 will also work but they're more expensive. And a sub. However, it's pretty darned clear to me that you are an explorer, and that's OK. You will have to discover for yourself I suppose. The M1 and M2 will give you clarity, soundstage and imaging. The M3 is less clear, imaging is more fuzzy and the sound is thicker which some prefer. The M3, depending on how you place it, may boom due to the upper bass bump in the amplitude response curve. Trust me. I own almost everything Axiom.

I'd love to pick up the m2s and a sub for my computer set up but way too many other things to get first. If they are anything like the m2 bookshelves they would sound incredible.

According to Axiom, they are identical. So get the M1 to enjoy some variety. Smaller and easier to place too.

Maybe i'll grab those ebony ones out of b stock.

Grab them b4 Snow does.

Are they ebony or walnut? I have the M50v4 in ebony and they are SWANK!

ebony

SWANK!

You are right Mojo, bit of an explorer. I wanted to see what the fuss was about on all reviews from a commercial brand; and its way easier to return to Costco than to Axiom.

However, that sound cut out turned out to be a keyboard chair interface problem (me). If you hook the two with wires, which these allow (but its a signal wire, secondary has its own amp), Primary sends signal to Secondary over the wire, no more wireless, but you have to go in the configuration app on the phone and tell it to use the wire, else it keeps using wireless which is a bit like weather. So that problem solved.

I am going to listen to these some more and decide if they should stay or go. Wish it was easier to audition Axioms

If you are enjoying those KEFs, I'd recommend you stop exploring and just chill. Of course you can never know how good those KEFs are until you try M1, M2, M3.

BTW, without a sub, you'll be missing out no matter what you buy unless you move to active LFR1100s.

Please do tell. How does Active LFR1100 make you all of a sudden not need a sub. And while you are at it, please explain what you have 3 subs hooked up to your Active LFR1100? You had just said that these speakers don't need a sub in the above quote then an hour later in https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/u...advice-on-family-room-setting#Post444539 tell us how you have not only the largest sub Axiom makes (EP800) but an additional two EP600. Apparently the LFR1100 need to have 3 subs to work adequately in your room.

if you were in the GTA then I'd say come on over and you can give them a listen yourself. Or if you offer a beer, I'd drive them over to your house and you can give them a listen in your own home setup.

Sure. I'd be more than pleased to share that information for the 87th time Mr. Mattmanhasgonebuthascomebackthistimewithone.

I originally installed the actives in my 22x12x8 living room (~2000 cu ft). In that environment, the bass was unlike anything I've ever heard. I waxed poetically about it for 86 posts and this makes it 87.

Then I moved them to their permanent home in my 4400+ cu ft basement. No doubt the bass there was the most controlled and full I ever heard out of any speaker but that holiness I heard in my living room was gone.

The OP said the speakers were for his office. I assumed his office was no larger than my living room. Hence, if he had the actives, he wouldn't need a sub.

BTW, even with twin 600s and an 800 in the basement, I still can't get the bass I had in the living room. That's the 12th time I've said that.

Snow Grabbed them

Powering them with Denon PM-600NE, M2 aren't here but powering a friend's old paradigm monitors with them, its a good setup and also convinced me KEF is no match to an AMP and even speakers that can be had for $150 a a pair in the used market.

Here is my inexperianced review
Imaging: KEF better than Paradigm Monitor (probably because paradigm aren't near field)
Bass: Paradigm. So bad that even with a sub, there is an entire band missing between what sub can do and KEF can't.
Vocals: Pradigm monitors more crisp but then also doesn't seem natural, clinical (if it means what I think it means). KEF is more natural sounding, very melodious but then subdued
Instruments (voilin, guitars, piano): Crisp on paradigm, KEF in comparision not as bright and side by side you ask Paradigm is better, but after about 20 min of KEF they sound pleasing.

What am I expecting from M2? Sound more melodeous than Paradigm and missing band of bass present in M2. Paradigms giving me listening fatigue, KEF not, hope M2 does a better job.

Snow, you curious keener you! Way to go. Poor Canes.

The KEF sound exactly how I expected with the exception of the bass. I have to say I am really surprised. Those KEFs are a bit of a technical powerhouse with an integrated DSP and concentric tweeter which really helps with imaging. In the app, you can tweak the settings for the DSP. Tweak the boundary gain compensation and that may make a difference.

I don't want to say anything about the M2s because I don't want to influence you. Really curious what your findings will be.

Oh...and the tangerine waveguide on the KEFs. Almost forgot about that! I can't decide if that waveguide beats Bose's free space array.

BTW Mojo, Where are you in GTA, I am Oakville, if you are within 20 min would love to have you over and get your opinion, I know at the end its what I hear.

I realize a lot of us are biased and almost religious when it comes to Axiom, I know I am a bit and I know other Axiom owners who wouldn't mind taking out their trucks if Axiom was to shut down

Oh dude, I am way over on the side the east loves to hate. Otherwise, I'd be right there helping you decide which one to throw on the truckers' BBQs.

Yeah, I like Axiom but I don't pull any punches. I call it as I hear it. The problem is, all the v4 stuff is very good (can't speak for M22 because I haven't heard it) but each one is a bit of its own character. That's why I bought them all!

Found my missing band, I am embarrased to say it was user error, KEF sub cross over was set at 100Hz, Sub was set to 60HZ, so I wasn't hearing 60-100Hz

Good ears-brain! So how are they now?

Much better, its unfair to compare them to my M80s but excellent for what I am using them for, as I was saying paradigm monitors give me serious headache up close within 20 min. I am waiting for the M2 to be delivered and run them both for a week and put an end to this saga, at least until my audio itch is back.

I think Paradigm and Axiom collaborated on tweeters a long time ago. That might explain why older Axiom and Paradigm tweeters lead to brain damage.

I am curious if you've adjusted any DSP settings in the KEF app. Still looking forward to hearing about the M2.

I am still tinkering with it them, It took me a while to understand how High pass filter/low pass filter work, the "missing band" I was talking about. These are the settings

• Desk Mode (On / Off, -6.0 dB to 0.0 dB)
• Wall Mode (On / Off, -6.0 dB to 0.0 dB)
• Treble Trim (-2.0 dB to 2.0 dB)
• Phase Correction (On / Off)
• Bass Extension (Less / Standard / Extra)
• High-Pass Mode (On / Off, 50 Hz to 120 Hz)
• Sub Out Low-Pass Frequency (40 Hz to 250 Hz)
• Sub Gain (-10 dB to 10 dB)
• Sub Polarity (+ / –)

Initially I thought Sub out would just set frequencies going to sub, but the documentation is weak on all off this. So Sub's own filter + Sub out LPF decides what freq come out of the sub plays. I had turned on HPF which the documentation doesn't say what it does, but after tinkering; and in hindsight I am thinking duh. It is HPF for the KEFs themselves, so you can send some freq to the sub with LPF and setup a HPF which can and will cut out freq that don't come out of either sub or KEFs, add to that that my Sub was setup at 60Hz while receiving 100Hz and below created a whole lot of mess.

Rest of the settings, Desk Mode, Wall Mode, Treble Trim I just literally tinkered until I liked the sound. I really don't understand what they really do except for the effect it is having on sound. I will try to articulate each when I have a little more time and my wife not screaming for breakfast

The desk and wall mode adjust for boundary gain. Desk mode for the desk surface in front of the speaker; wall mode for the wall behind the speaker. Boundaries act as acoustic mirrors. The direct signal from the driver interferes with the reflected signal from the boundary. Those settings provide a degree of compensation.

You've read the table below? Click on it to read.

Yes I did read it, but in practice my ears can't tell any significant difference. I tried putting two profiles one with off and other having the max settings, I can hear the sound change ever so slightly but not enough to say one was better than the other.

My Thoughts are that the KEF Control software is used by both KEF LSX and KEF LS50W, plus these settings shouldn't be changing the treble, only bass as thats where walls and desk would cause interference. Considering the LSX are weak on bass, I don't see much going on.

I did get my Axiom M2 today, B-Stock, one speaker turned out to have a scuff on the grill so can't complain getting a $200+ discount on then

I will post my comparision.

Initial impressions, Axiom exceed in all aspects except vocals.

I had to google the effect I am hearing in KEF. so google says it calls Vibrato, while listening to All My Tears, I can hear Ane Brun holding those notes in vibrato so beautifully that it brings out emotions and gives chills. Further I can hear nuances in her breathing between words that no other speaker I tested pronounces them so beautifully. I am beginning to think its either the Denon PMA-600NE not able to deliver or KEF doing something wonky with their DSP. I hold Axiom to a very high regard, if they aren't able to produce these same effects, is something wrong with the AMP or the speakers not delivering!

I just listened to it via YouTube music.

My M2OW in the living room don't vibrato.

The active LFRs vibrato very nicely.

POS M2OW! To the firepit they go!!

BTW, on the LFRs I can clearly hear the oxygen entering the alveoli and carbon dioxide releasing. Her right lung sounds like it has more capacity. I can also hear two - maybe three - small benign polyps in her bronchial passages.

What you need to do now is figure out which provides more enjoyment.

I'd be curious to know if you can perceive any soundstage width and depth in your set-up.

KEF are giving much better soundstage when it comes to width, not much depth. I feel its pulling vocals to left a bit; but vocals are better sounding.

I am going to audition for a week before deciding. I am enjoying KEF LSX more but very aparent of its shortcomings while I hear them. The missed bass on songs I know well, when I am expecting them and I don't hear them, I get snaped out of euphoria the vocals are building.

M2 I am hearing everything I want to hear but I can't answer why I am not enjoying them. Leaning towards KEF inspite of its shortcoming in the bass department!

Maybe adjusting the toe-in will fix the pulling to the left. Enjoy!

Snow...dude...you will not believe this! I have the Axiom Audiobyte computer speakers. They are one step "down" from the M2s. I believe they are called M1s. The rendition of the song I listened to earlier and now on the Audiobytes is at the link below. Anyway...I have always loved these Audiobytes. They only go down to about 100Hz but I have a 20-year old stinky, Sony 12" sub that I heavily modified that is actually quite pleasant.

So get this - not only does she sound supremely clean and vibratory, she is wide, WIDE, W I D E. Her voice is coming from dead centre in an eerie kinda way but she's reverberating out to the sides and around me. I freakin' love these damned things!

No depth to speak of though on this tune unless you count the fact she's wrapping around me and fading out somewhere behind me. My desk and room are nothing special BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNSBctmMI3k

Just look at it, Snow. Burled walnut!

Looks so beautiful, I am sure sounds just as sweet.

Meanwhile, guess what, the B-Stock speaker they sent has some issue, its woofer is dead, not sure whats going on. I played them for 5 min in morning and went to a meeting wondering why are they sounding off. Now that I got more time as soon as i turned them on I noticed I could barely hear anything from one channel. swapped the channels, still the same speaker that is bad. Argh, hate when that happens, I am surprised Axiom didn't test the speaker before shipping it to me, disappointed.

Bad mid-woofer is good news! Strong-arm them into a brand new pair with a finish of your choice.

Wonder if they had some fabrication issues. Both of my M2 woofers went bad over the weekend. Worked on Saturday blown on Sunday

Look carefully at the solders between wire and coil, it seemed like a cold solder. They are shipping another and I thought let me try doing a better job and tried some better soldering, but the space is very tight and is almost impossible, I did manage to get some more solder but couldn't make it any better, definitely some shady manufacturing. It played for few minutes and the contact broke again.

Looks like they hired someone new to solder, wonder if that feedback can be given to anyone there.

Thats my further buthcering of an already butchered job. To be fair it didn't look this butchered before I was done with it but the coil wire wasn't making contact properly.

Geeeez! It looks like maple syrup was spilled on it too.