Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners My quandry: Marantz, HK or Yamaha for ~$1K

Current system:
HK AVR55
2x Axiom m80ti
2x Axiom QS8
1x Infinity Center (Prolly replaced with Axiom 1 day soon)

I have ruled out Denon (3805) at this point due to their long time reputation for "embellishing?" their actual power outputs and my need to drive my Axioms HARD without clipping.

The AVR has served me very well since 2000. It is built like a brick and drives the Axioms with ease. It lacks some features that I am willing to pay for in a new unit. These include : Component video switching, DTS Decoding, 192KHz DACs, and SACD/DVD-Audio inputs (digital preferred, but likely out of my price range of ~$1K).

Now to the contenders: The HK 630, the Marantz SR-7500 and the Yammy RX-V1500. The Yammy is probably not even a real choice due to my understanding that it is not a good match for the Axioms due to the brightness of both the speakers and the receiver. That, and the new Yammys look and feel "cheap". I mean, a plastic main knob for $800?

As I mentioned, I have a soft spot for the HK as my previous one has served me so well for so long. I know from experience that the HK will probably drive my Axioms without strain, but I have noted that the build quality on the current 630 does not match that of my older AVR55. Like the Yammy, the 630 seems to have a cheap "plastiky" main knob. As with the yamaha, it lacks THX certification (not that it makes a big difference). HK offer a 2 year warranty.

The Marantz: I have no experience with this brand, but I gather that it is very highly regarded. The unit is solid, and the front knob is milled AL. THX Select, Dolby PLIIx, Burr-Brown DACs, and a very good remote. Marantz is only sold by some "high end" stores here in Dallas, as opposed to the HK and Yammys which can be picked up at CC or the like. I have read the older 7400 series runs HOT. 3 year warranty.

Now the hard part: I want a unit that is excellent at BOTH music and HT. Can anyone lend some insight into some PROs/CONs into these units and thier matching with my Axioms?

Supe, welcome. It appears that you may be unnecessarily concerned over matters that have no factual basis, but instead are audio myths that you may have heard or read elsewhere. First, the power ratings of the Denons(and all other receivers sold in the U.S. subject to FTC regulation)are accurate; if they weren't they'd be in violation of the law. Lab tests consistently show that they meet and in fact exceed their ratings. My view is that the Denons should be back on your list.

Next, neither the Axioms nor the Yamahas(or any other competently designed receivers)are "bright". The Yamaha, incidentally, does have THX certification and should be well-suited powerwise for your needs.

Finding a receiver excellent for both music and HT should by no means be the "hard part". Sound is sound, regardless of whether it's Yo-Yo Ma on the cello or Schwartzennegger on the machinegun.

It's not surprising that your 55 is fine as to power, but that you'd like a unit with up-to-date features. If by digital SACD/DVD-A you mean a receiver that has i.Link or similar connection ability, consider the Pioneer 56TXi, available for right around $1,000. For well under $1,000, the Denon 2805, Yamaha 1500 or 2500 and the new HK 435 and 635(which might not be available for two more months, reportedly)are among the units which should meet your needs well. Of course, the appearance and feel of the controls are a matter of personal preference.

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Next, neither the Axioms nor the Yamahas(or any other competently designed receivers)are "bright". The Yamaha, incidentally, does have THX certification and should be well-suited powerwise for your needs.

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........And there you have it. All receivers sound the same and no manufacture bumps up there wattage rating..........and if you believe that, I have some land for sale down in Mexico that I will give you a great deal on.

I'm not trying to get you going here JohnK but have you actually heard half the receivers you seem to know so much about? There is no way in this world that you can tell me that an HK and a Yamaha sound the same. They don't, plain and simple. You can graph and chart me till the cows come home and I still won't buy it. They don't and no I'm not in audio never never land. I'm not hoping that the HK will sound better, I'm not tricking my mind in to thinking the Yamaha's are bright etc etc.

I can go on in particular about THX certification and the joke it has become but I just can't be bothered debating this crap anymore. You go on thinking that everything sounds the same and if it's stamped THX, your good to go.

I'll second that.

expatbrit, nice bike! I love those CBR1000RR. I had a CBR900 that I sold off last year. I want another one but the dam wife keeps shutting me down!

I apologize to JohnK but I agree with Neverhappy. I have had Denons, HK, and a buddy of mine has a Yamaha. They do not sound similar in any way. The HK's are more powerful and IMHO light years ahead of the Yamaha and Denons powerwise. Denon does have a great processor but compared to the HK no real world power comparison.

I've been teeter-tottering on this issue for quite some time. Everything John has said regarding the sound of amps makes perfect sense to me. After all, isn't an amp an amp. But, recently, I decided to give that Pioneer 1014 everyone seems to be talking about a try. I did the microphone thing and was all set to be excited. I know many like it, but this thing left my m22s sounding neutered, dull and lifeless. I hooked up my old Yamaha, and the detail and clarity of the 22s had returned. I would take a Yamaha any day over a Pioneer. I can't tell anyone how Yamaha compares with HK, Denon or Marantz. I do have a suspicion that my Yamaha wouldn't be outclassed.

Hey littleb,
RE: the Pioneer 1014.

Was that "microphone thing" an auto equilization setup feature. If so it's no surprise the Pioneer would sound different... I've heard mixed reviews on this auto equalization found on recievers. Some love it, others hate it. Alan strongly recommends against it as it totally changes a speakers character and can more often than not totally negate the efforts of the speaker desinger in creating a neutral sounding speaker. Anyways, if the Pioneer was "equalizing" then there's no surpirse that it would sound different.

Cheers, jag

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I did the microphone thing

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Stay clear of the microphone thing. For one, it's not very accurate on the Pioneer, and two, it causes far more bad then good.

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Everything John has said regarding the sound of amps makes perfect sense to me.

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It makes sense to me too but one must factor in the differences in output stages, dac's and a dozen other factors before we can come to the conclusion that everything sounds the same.

Look I'm not trying to start anything with JohnK. His posts are some of the most informative of anybody here, but to make a blanket statement that solid state this and that all sound the same is in my mind, wrong. I have heard the difference and I know it's there.

You might also consider NAD. NAD and H/K are comparable with regards to power output capabilities. I'm quite pleased with my H/K 7200. I use it for HT and Stereo. It drives the M80's effortlessly and louder than I, or my neighbors could ever tolerate. I'm not sure if you can still find the 7200 or not, but it was selling for less than $1000. The 7300 replaced it, but it is outside of your price range. If you can swing the price of the 7300, I doubt you would have any regrets.

Thanks for all the advice, my dealer(s) let me home demo the HK 630, Denon 3805, Marantz 7500 and the Yammy 1500 simultaneously. Two days of DVD-A, SACD, Redbook, and DVD-V and only the Denon remains. I know I started this thread with the "anti-Denon" attitude, but in my mind the Denon was the best all-around unit. After I told the dealer I was keeping the Denon, he "found" a Denon DVD-5900 in the back and offered it to me for $900(!!!). I almost tore my underwear getting out my wallet. The DLINK (Denon Digital Link) works great and will soon (any day now according to Denon) support SACD in addtion to the DVD-A, DTS, DD, and PCM it already streams to the receiver digitally. Blu-Ray is right around the corner, so I saw nothing wrong with picking up what many (myself included) consider to be the finest <$5000 "universal" player ever made. For $900.

The Denon auto-setup (using the $65 Denon mic) did a very nice job of setting up the room. I did have to go back in and adjust the SW, but other than that everything was spot-on when verified with the meter.

Oh, and I ran the Denon up to +5 dB with the m80's with no clipping or distortion. I guess my Denon power concerns were unfounded. One day I might even use the 3805 to bi-amp the fronts.

Well hot damn superstar556. You scored two fine pieces of equipment. The denon 5900 for 900 clams? I would've $hit my pants for that. hahaha.

Does he have any more? Please form an orderly line behind me!

I really don't understand the statement that any form of equalization changes the speaker designers intention adversely.As we all know every room and environment changes the sound that the designers intended.Most of us do not live in a audio paradise where our listening room is built to match speaker specifications.It would be impossible for me to listen to my m80's without equalization in my particular listening situation.

Hi asher, I'm not sure it's that ANY form of equalization is bad. I'm just repeating what Alan has expressed about the auto equalization found on newer recievers these days, and I'm probably not doing a very good job at that! . These recievers will equalize every frequency as opposed to a specific range ( as in a tone control ) and I think this is the difference. Also as I understand it good desingers factor in the effects of the expected listening environment so a global equalization is counter productive.

But I'm very much out of my league on these kind of technical details; hopefully, others can comment....

Cheers, Jag

I don't think people are trying to say "equalization is bad" as much as "automatic equalization is still pretty unreliable and is probably not the best thing to base your receiver decision on".

Superstar, I've been curious about the Marantz SR7500, and I'd be interested to hear what you did and didn't like about it. And what was it that set the Denon apart from the others?

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"automatic equalization is still pretty unreliable and is probably not the best thing to base your receiver decision on"

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As someone who has played with more then his fair share of receivers, I can tell you that you are right on the money. The only one I have seen out of Parasound, Denon, HK, Pioneer and a few others that even comes close to getting it right is Yamaha and even that left a lot to be desired.

Everybody I know asks me about auto EQing and I tell them all the same thing, stay away from it.

I don't know about onboard automated equalization.I use a outboard vintage DBX 10/20 computerised equalizer and it works wonders at taming a bass node in my room.It does an across the board straight line equalization.My M80's now sound fantastic.This equalization is completely automated and I would have had to get rid of my m80's if not for this equalizer.

The Marantz was #2 on my list. Musically I rated it equal to the 3805 or maybe a *BIT* better. The HT portion of the Marantz was off in comparison to the Denon and the Yamaha. But the real killer for the M was the lack of a full digital transport system like DLINK or IEEE1394. Honestly, there is not 10% of difference between ANY of the systems I reviewed so it really comes down to feature set.

I always read that Denon is terrible about overrating their output power, but even driving 4(F)/6(C)/6(R) Ohm speakers I have not had the unit clip or go into thermal protection.

Think it ever will?