Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Speaker array for surrounds on a 5.1 setup

I am looking into setting up a home theater system for my first time. I need to learn as much as I can before I dive into this task, so bare with me.

I have decided that I am going to use a speaker array using the M22Ti speakers... It would be an array of two. The M22Ti power rating is from 10-200 Watts at 8 Ohms. By having two in parallel, how much power would I need to pump into it? I would suppose that I would need 400 Watts per channel.

I'm new to home theater installation, and I don't want to muck anything up. So, I was wondering if anybody could tell me the difference between a Pre-Amp and an Amp... Don't they do the same thing?

Also, if a reciever has a 110 Watt amplifier built in, and a 200 Watt amplifier (or would it be pre-amp???) is connected would that make 310 Watts?

As you can see I am new to this. Any direction on this via websites and documentation of any kind would be greatly appreciated.

Brant

Um.... What do you mean by speaker array? You don't need to connect two M22s per channel to get good sound. In fact, it will probably be worse. If you need more sound for your room, you should look at M50s, 60s, or 80s.

The wattage rating on speakers is inconsequential. It means only that the speaker will make sound at the bottom of the range, and will not explode at the top of the range.

A preamp switches sources (ie, CD player, DVD player, etc.) and does processing on the signal. An amplifier amplifies the signal. You need both.

No. You'd be connecting the amplifier to the pre-outs on the reciever, which bypasses the receivers amplification circuit (which is a good thing--you wouldn't want to put a 110 watt signal into a port that normally accepts a milliwatt signal!)

When running speakers in parallel, the impedence is reduced. In your case, 8 ohms to 4 ohms. So the amp wattage really doesn't matter as much as it's ability to drive a consistant 4 ohm load. You'll need a good quality amp.

A pre-amp is basically a processor...you hook all your components (CD, DVD, TV, phono, cassette, 8-track, etc.) into the pre-amp. You then select the source thru the pre-amp. It then sends the signal (unamplified) to the amps, which are connected to your speakers. An "integrated" amp has both the pre-amp and amp in the same unit. These are the most common. Around here, you will find people use integrated amps from Harmon-Kardon, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, etc.

No...in order to connect another amplifier, you would have to use the pre-amp outputs on amp 1. This signal carries no usable wattage. The signal is then amplified by amp 2.

Rabrant,

Welcome to the forum, I am sure that we can get you sorted out and on your way. There are a lot of nice, knowledgeable people that hang out here.
For a decent, upgradeable (believe me it will happen) 5.1 system you will need:

2 main speakers, let us know your room size and listening tastes and we can point you in the right direction. Let's assume a pair of M22's for now.

A center channel speaker - the majority of the movie sound (especially dialog) comes from here. I would suggext the VP150 as it is a good speaker and should not require an upgrade for a long time.

2 rear/side surround speakers for ambient effects - rear or side depending on your room setup. The Axiom QS8 speaker is recognized as one of the best surround speakers available for the price (and more).

A subwoofer - very important for the low frequncy range, especially for movies. Axiom, HSU, and SVS are favorites of most forum members.

A reciever - switches between inputs (cd, dvd, cable etc) applies processing (Dolby, DTS, etc) and amplifies the signals that are sent out to the speakers. A 7.1 channel system is advisable (for future upgrades), as is a system which allows you to bypass the internal power amp section and use an external poweramp in the future.

DVD/CD player - there are many good, affordable universal players available which will last you a while. Many also support the new multi channel SACD and DVD-A formats.

Cables - digital for between you DVD player and receiver, speaker cables (Axiom bulk cable is excellent) etc.

Well, that should give you some information to get you started. Any informatin on your room, budget etc will help us to help you.

Welcome to a fun hobby.

PREAMPLIFIER: Audio component that adjusts the volume of an low-level audio signal and performs switching functions between attached input devices (DVD player, Cable box, etc.) and an amplifier or group of amplifiers. (A preamplifier is also called a processor, or a Pre-Pro {from PREamplifier, and PROcessor})

AMPLIFIER: Electronic component that accepts a low-level signal and recreates the signal with more power; this term is most often used in audio/video to describe an audio component which takes in line-level audio signals through interconnect cables and outputs a high-powered replica of the input in order to drive speakers and create sound.

INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER: Audio component combining the elements of an amplifier with those of a preamplifier, but not containing a tuner. (Making an integrated amplifier different from a receiver which does contain a tuner.)

TUNER: Tuners are primarily used for FM and AM radio reception.

RECEIVER: Combination, in one component, of an amplifier, preamplifier, and tuner.

Thank you for your direction... As you can tell I'm new to this. I want to do as much research as possible before I start to build a home theater.

I know speaker placement is one key player in the sound quality. A friend of mine told me that you should use all of the same model speaker so that the frequency responce would be the same for the entire setup. He also said that two or four subwoofers should be used. Placement should be either Front/Rear Center, Left/Right Center or both. He was also the one who mentioned a speaker array for the surrounds instead of a surround speaker.

Take a look at the side walls of a movie theater, they use a speaker array, so why shouldn't I?

What I want is a home theater that directly matches the director/producers intent for the sound. There is a catch to this, it's called a budget!!!

Thanks again for your help!

Um, is your friend made of money? If so, this is going to take an arm and a leg. If not, um...

4 subwoofers? Good lord! What size room are you doing this in?

A good bi, di, or quadpolar speaker (such as the QS4 or QS8) from Axiom should take care of most surround needs in conventional sized HT rooms (ie, not an auditorium) If you desire more surround, consider 7.1 with bi/di/quad on the sides and mono/bi/di/quad on the back, despending on your preferences.

Most people in charge of mixing DVDs are well aware that they will be shown in the home; mostly on 5.1 setups with the occasional 6.1s, 7.1s, and really esoteric nuts thrown in there for good measure. They mix DVDs with this in mind; a DVD mix should not and probably is not the same as a theatre/film mix.

rabrant,

In my experience -- and I'm sure most other here will agree -- a thoughtfully assembled home theater, even one with just five speakers and a single subwoofer, easily beats the pants off the sound found in most theaters.

The reason a theater uses an array of side speakers is that they need to cover a large area. Axiom QS speakers do the job superbly in all but the largest rooms.

Also, keep in mind that when movie soundtracks are being made, the mastering suite more closely resembles a living room than a large theater.

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easily beats the pants off the sound found in most theaters

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Oh, don't get me started on movie theaters.
I can't tell you how many times I've been dissapointed in the sound (and a lot of other things) at the movie theaters. I've stopped wasting my money.

If you really want the TRUE theatre experience you can hire me to sit in your home and talk, cough and make cell phone calls during the movie. For an extra bonus I can also deliver the dialogue 10 seconds before the actors do.

To be honest, I believe that most well thought out home theatres are miles above the average movie theatre.

Agreed, I don't go to the movies too often, but I took the kids to see The Polar Express at the weekend. The whole time I was thinking wow, great movie, but it would be so much better at home!

rabrant,

One piece of advice that I like to give to friends/coworkers who are getting into HT for the first time is that you are better off getting a excellent 5.1 system rather than a mediocre 6.1 or 7.1 system.

Get the biggest, baddest receiver that you can afford...forego the 6th (and 7th) speaker in exchange for a better quality/more features. You can add the 6th and 7th speaker later.

Good luck.

very good advice alou...

i think 6.1, and 7.1 systems are over-rated. for those that have them, and love them, more power to ya.. i aint taking nothing away from you. but, in average environments, the additional rear channels that a 6.1 or 7.1 system provide, have been less than impressive to me.

i think alou's idea of using the surplus money and getting a great receiver/amp, and then worrying about the rears at a later date, is a very straight forward and logical idea.

no wonder why everyone is always asking us for our advice. its just soooo damn good.

bigjohn

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If you really want the TRUE theatre experience you can hire me to sit in your home and talk, cough and make cell phone calls during the movie. For an extra bonus I can also deliver the dialog 10 seconds before the actors do.

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Oh YOU'RE the guy that follows me around from theater to theater and sits just behind me. Hmmmm?

You know, I just realized something. A little background first. I got started in this whole home theater thing because of the great sound in theaters. I can remember sitting in the theater, watching the credits roll (all the way to the end) because of the fabulous sound of the music under the credits. Voices had an "in your face" presence that I had never experienced before, certainly not from my 30 year old stereo system. So I got me a Pro Logic receiver and a JBL HTIB (which was my first step down the path which eventually led to hanging out with bad company on the internet , and to financial ruin), and immediately realized "AH! Boy! Finally! Now this..........still doesn't sound like the theater.

So I made my first "upgrades" (the greatest mistake of my life, for it infected me with the dreaded disease.....upgraditis ) I got me a Cambridge Soundworks center channel, and (admitted with GREAT shame) Bose 301 fronts. I know! I know! I've now, forever, lost any admiration and respect I may have earned. But I just didn't know what I was doing. Sheesh! Anyway, believe it or not, that little center channel got me the results I'd wanted, and I was VERY pleased to hear what I thought, at the time, was an approximation of the theater experience. At the least, I achieved, to a satisfying degree, that vocal presence in the center channel. Well, needless to say, I've come a long way since those days, and the equipment I have today is a considerable improvement over what I had then.

BUT! (And here's the interesting revelation I had that prompted this dissertation.) Because of my particular circumstances, the last time I was in a theater was BEFORE I bought that Pro Logic receiver and the JBL HTIB; BEFORE I experienced the great sound I've achieved in my own home. So, I have no way of knowing how my setup compares to a theater's setup. I've been assuming, all along, that as good as my HT is, it would still never measure up to a theater's.

Could it be, based on what some of you have said above, that my system actually sounds BETTER than a theater's? HOLY CATS! What an epiphany! I'd never even considered that possibility. Only time will tell, of course. But I'm looking forward to that first trip to a theater to find out. VERY interesting!

I'll charge you $9.50 for each person who watches, and then pour syrup all over your floor. Unless it's before 2 PM (2 PM!!!), in which case I'll only charge you $7.

Damn, I wonder all the time why I don't see more movies in the theatre, then I go see one. And my wallet remembers...

Spiderman 2 at the IMAX is the only movie experience I have had that compares (not necessarily exceeds - that remains to be seen) to watching movies at home since I bought my home theater.

Polk RTi8 Fronts
CSi5 Center
Fxi 3 Surrounds
Velodyne CHT 12 sub
HK AVR 230

My wife just asked me today if I want to go to the movies this weekend and see "Ray".

But now that I got my Samsung DLP the day before yesterday and my newish Axiom setup, I think there's been a fundemental change: Now, with the "epics" or "great soundtrack" movies that I used to want to see in a theater, I'll specifically look to watch in DVD at home. I honestly feel that my sound system and my picture are above any theater I'v been in for the last 5 years or so!

My picture is kinda small but IMO the sound is quite a bit better than in even the fairly large theaters. And that's with M2s !!

Like everyone is saying, theaters have lots of speakers because they're really large, not because the speakers are required to get authentic sound. Go for a 5.1 system with a good sub and QS surrounds and I think you'll be REALLY happy.

Thanks for all of your insight!

I was looking around at subs... I liked what I saw at the SVS site the best. Does anybody know if there is a real big quality difference between these?

SVS Box Subs
PB10-ISD ($430)
PB12-ISD ($600)

I was also looking at the Dayton 10" 100 Watt Sub at partsexpress.com which is $220.

Which of these subs would be best for a 15x25ft room, value wise?

Rabrant, what size sub you should get depends on how big your room is. I have the PB12-ISD in a 12x13 room and it is far more than enough for my needs. The PB10 is pretty new. If it had been available at the time, I probably would have gone with it since it's significantly cheaper and my room isn't very large.

Regardless, you really can't go wrong with either SVS or Hsu subwoofers.

fordperfect-- do you charge by the movie or by the hour?

Hi snakeyes,

It's always by the movie unless it's the Titanic. Then I charge $10 per minute and all the beer I can drink. As an added bonus I cheer for the iceberg.

That was awesome.