Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners do I want Axioms?

Hi everybody,

I'm finally replacing my ancient (ca. 1985) Pioneer CS-D9000 floorstanders - they are completely shot, unlistenable (though they do provide excellent surface space). My budget is $300-$350 and I can't afford a subwoofer, so I'm looking for a good pair of stand-alone bookshelves.

I have two trusted friends in distant locations who swear by Axioms - one has the M22 and the other has the 3ti, but I figured I'd listen to what I could around here before I committed. I went to the two audio stores in my town today and listened to the following: Energy C3; Paradigm Titans; Paradigm Mini Monitors; PSB Image 2; Klipsch RB25; MA Bronze 2 (list for some of those is out of my range but there were sales &/or floor models available). (Also a used pair of Titans which I didn't like as much as the new ones I tried).

Apart from doing this by myself, which I hate because I never trust my ears, I'm getting over a headcold, and so my head's a little stuffed up to begin with. Not the best circumstances for audio shopping, but I'm getting desperate.

I brought 4 CDs with me: Mission of Burma; Antipop Consortium; Velvet Underground (third album, the mellow one); Coltrane at Birdland; which pretty much covers my listening spectrum. With these CDs, thus far I feel like the Titans did best (followed by the Klipsch), because they had kind of a warmer sound and I found myself getting more of the spectrum. (Figuring that without a subwoofer, that warmer sound might make a big difference, especially considering that my amp has a 5 band EQ).

Anyway, I guess my questions are:

1. Given what I listen to, and given my seteup (which follows), does it sound like I would benefit from the M3ti (which has been recommended by a guy at Axiom)?

2. What in general do people think of the speakers I've mentioned in relation to each other, and to the M3ti?

Thanks (in advance) for taking the time. I apologize if this is lacking or inconvenient; my head is plugged almost completely solid right now.

Oh, my setup: Pioneer SA-1270 amp (ca. 1985) w/whatever turntable came with it at the time, and an Onkyo DX-C390 6 disc-changer.

Thanks.

Good questions. I haven't heard all the speakers but let me start and others with more info can jump in.

The M3s are the standard recommendation for standalone bookshelf speakers and people using them standalone seem to be real happy with them. My only concern would be that the M3s and M22s aren't going to have as much bass as your floorstanders so depending on the music and sound levels you listen at that might be a problem. How big is your listening room ?

From the list you provided, my first thought would be that the PSB Image 2s (2Bs, right ?) are probably the most serious alternative to the Axioms, probably followed by the Mini Monitors. The Image 2Bs seemed to have a bit more bass and more "kick" than the Axioms, but the Axioms sounded smoother and more accurate in most other respects. I imagine you would be pretty happy with either the PSBs (2B's were recently replace by 25's, I think) or the Axioms. If you listen more to jazz & acoustic instruments the Axioms are a no-brainer -- if you listen more to rock you might like the PSBs slightly better.

I own a pair of Paradigm Atoms and think they're pretty nice but not as good as my M2s. A lot of people think Atoms are actually better than Titans even though they are less expensive -- haven't heard Titans so can't say much more there.

Someone posted in the last couple of weeks comparing with the MA Bronze 2's -- consensus seemed to be that the M3s were nicer if I remember correctly, but suggest you search for the post just in case I have it wrong. I think the thread was looking for opinions on S2s but one or two people piped in who had owned or heard B2s.

Bridgman,

Thanks. Yeah, they're 2Bs. I wasn't so excited about them - it might have been the difference in the rest of the setup (two different shops), but they sounded kind of muddy in the middle, as did the Mini Monitors. The Titans had a pretty nice high end, and when I added a little bass came off pretty nicely. I'm no bass junkie but I do listen for it (I'm a bass player, too).

The MAs just struck me as very weak. Overall the Titans and the Klipsch were what the stereo guys called the most efficient - which, if I'm glossing it correctly, means that they were louder lower.

Rock (of varying kinds) and electronic music (of varying kinds) are probably what I listen to most. Hiphop a distant third, with jazz/folk/classical coming in just after that.

The room size is more or less 14x9x8H. It opens through an archway into a much larger room - 16x21x8. The smaller room is where the speakers will be, but they'll be heard in the larger one as well.

Thanks again.

Now that I think about it, I guess genre is less important than "what you take away from the music". I have M2s at home rather than M3s so I can't give you exact comparisons, but here's my take on it.

If you really enjoy well engineered albums where all the instruments are clear and sharp, every note is crafted just right etc.., then you're going to love the Axioms. They have that "you can hear the pick scraping on the windings on the bass strings" kind of accuracy. I was listening to an old Devo album last night (first time on the Axioms, in fairness probably first time on any good speakers) and was really surprised how great the album sounded. I had only paid attention to one or two songs when listening on other speakers.

If you listen more for the "sound washing over you" effect then the M3s might be a bit too "small" for you and one of the other (albeit a bit muddy sounding) speakers might be better overall.

It's kinda hard to tell without giving them a good listen, unfortunately. Axiom is real good about their 30-day return policy and you're in NY so shipping back to Buffalo is probably pretty cheap if you found that you didn't like them -- but your comments about the other speakers sure sound like they're coming from an Axiom owner ;)

Yeah, it's tricky because while I do listen to a lot of Ramones, Black Flag, etc - where the details aren't so important - I listen to a lot of stuff like Mission of Burma, Brian Eno, & various hiphop stuff where there's quite a lot of detail. I love that kind of thing (Steve Albini is a favorite producer). So it's kind of a matter of what will excel in one department and be good enough (more than, ideally) for the rest.

I have heard the M22s, I realize, and love them. I'm 100% confident Axioms are brilliant speakers - I'm just trying to work out if they're the brilliant speakers for me.

Thanks again.

Anyone who has particular experience with the Titans or Klipsch I mention, feel free to chime in - they're the frontrunners so far. (Though what I'll probably do is order the Axioms and then go back and forth between my house and the stereo shop, which fortunately is right across the highway from my place).

Aaron, welcome. When I was looking for some new speakers a little over three years ago, I did happen to listen at a dealer to the Paradigm Titan and Minis, among others. The first point is that listening at the dealer's might have little value, because the listening room at home(along with the speakers the component which will affect the sound on the recordings)likely will change the sound significantly. The "warmth" of some of the small Paradigms is due to a bump in the upper bass response around the 100-200Hz area which gives an impression of greater bass than actually exists, because of the loudness of a fundamental note in that area and a similar effect on the second harmonic of lower fundamentals in the 50Hz area. This may sound pleasant, but of course it's actually an inaccuracy. I wound up getting the M22s specifically because they were accurate speakers without that artificial "warmth". Of course, it's your money and your choice.

John, thanks. I'm aware of the difference in environments - unfortunate but unavoidable.

I think I recall reading about that "inaccuracy" in the Paradigms somewhere. I wonder how much of a practical issue that is? That is, was there more than a principle involved in your decision, and other than sounding "warmer" in the low end are there negative manifestations of this inaccuracy? Am I making myself clear?

Thanks again.

That's a tough question. I picked up a pair of Paradigm Atoms and really loved them on a lot of music... until I A/B'ed them with my M2s (yikes, why are they so different ?) then other speakers and realized the Atoms were pumping up the 100-200 Hz range which really changed the sound of a number of recordings and instruments.

The funny thing was that some recordings sound way better with that hump. The repetitive "tictock" sound on "Time" (DSOTM) sounds much more sharp and localized on the Atoms because the sound itself gets emphasized, for example.

Aaron, the inaccuracy is itself enough of a negative factor in my view. If the goal is high fidelity the speakers shouldn't make the sound any warmer than it is on the recording.

You guys made all of this too complicated.

Aaron's subject line was: "Do I want Axioms?"

The answer is: "Yes. Yes, you do."

Whoops. We thought it was an essay question

Thanks, everyone. I'm pretty certain I'm going to order the M3tis tonight. Or tomorrow morn.

Part of what is so attractive about Axioms is the dedication of this community (the fact that it even exists, for one thing). It reminds me of when I was a sort-of serious 16v Volkswagen enthusiast. Very nice.

The answer is C.

Wait, is that the right kind of test?