Of course you're right Alan and of course I was missing something, I think I found the description near the back of the manual (I'm reading my receiver manual when I should be working). I only had a couple of hours last night to play around and I was looking but not seeing, trying to go go go. I was doing it all with the on-screen menu but the separate section on doing things with remote only spells it out. I'll give the Avia a try tonight. I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.