Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler OT: Katrina and World Support?

Thanks Peter for the link, I saw that story on "Meet the Press" also, pretty heartbreaking. Turning away water from Walmart, Fuel, and cutting electrical, what is wrong with this picture. That final story before he broke down had my wife and I both in tears.

Peter - I watched a lengthy interview with Mr. Broussard on Saturday. He was complaining then that the government was "ignoring middle class white people and rescuing inner city blacks instead". Some of the comments he made were sounding like rhetoric from a Klan rally.

The idea that "overspun.com", as an obviously left wing blog, is using this racist to make a political point, should hopefully disgust you. As he was being interviewed, you could see dozens of wrecked cars in the background, and people standing on their houses. In other words, these people could have driven safely out on Thursday, the 25th, Friday, the 26th, Saturday, the 27th, Sunday the 28th. These people stayed, as did most of the "victims".

As for the mayor of New Orleans, and the governor of Louisana, and their complaints about the Federal response, the Louisana Guard is under direct control of the governor.

Each state controls its own guard units. Governors have historically fought against federal control over "their" troops. States have constitutionally stipulated control over each's National Guard as a buffer against a tyrannical Central Federal (ie. Washington) government.

Here is a link to the pdf file which explains how local, state and federal authorities are to respond in a disaster situation:

https://www.doctrine.quantico.usmc.mil/signpubs/w3334.pdf

The primary rule is this (and this is in bold face in the doctrine) :

"The National Guard in a non federal status has the primary responsibility for providing military assistance to state and local governments".

I know will probably get some hackles up, but here are some facts regarding this tragedy:

1. A category 4 hurricane more energy than 10,000 nuclear weapons.

2. This much force actually hit in a really bad spot.

3. People are trying to find someone to blame, and most of those trying to blame someone else for this tragedy are doing so to either: a. gain politically or b. cover their own asses.

4. If we, as a populace, decide we want "heads to roll", and for people to be publically humiliated, WE are asking for more trouble. Because, instead of seeking to be better prepared in the future, WE will be forcing people to go in CYA mode.

Finally, if we are to be intellecually honest, There is not anyone who would have been better prepared than those people at the state, local, and federal levels than what we have today. We have never seen anything like this. ever.

The Wife and I were having quite a time discussing all of this; finger pointing, responsibility et al, when one of the Grandkids came in and said we needed a spacecraft from one of the movies to come down and beam all the people up through the roofs of the houses, and from the water, and the rubble, and from the Domes. It'll have to very large to hold about a million people! And in a lot of respects, he's right. We may not actually have the technology and resources and infrastructure available to do the job that the average couch quarterback thinks we should. To me, anyway, to get a million folks or so, from rubble, from flooding, from within forty thousand individual structures, from within thousands of square miles area, to give them all food, water, clothing, medical attention, shelter, a little spending cash, viable comfortable dwelings for the newly homeless, and a quick route to their closest relatives within twenty-four hours or less, for the rest, so that people aren't suffering is something that may not be attainable regardless of what party is in office, and even if an unimaginably large ammount of money were available from whatever source.

Unless such a monumental craft already exists; in secret, at Area 51.



We need to develop that "Spaceship" technology, right? And Right Away. Just as soon as we finish something simple, like the space station.

I think most folks out there realize that this is not a simple task; but it's also not as simple a task as they think it is either.

Rich.

In reply to:

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4. If we, as a populace, decide we want "heads to roll", and for people to be publicly humiliated, WE are asking for more trouble. Because, instead of seeking to be better prepared in the future, WE will be forcing people to go in CYA mode.

Finally, if we are to be intellecually honest, There is not anyone who would have been better prepared than those people at the state, local, and federal levels than what we have today. We have never seen anything like this. ever

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I think these last two points are particularly cogent. Re. point #4: Though I feel this is absolutely correct, I fear our chances of avoiding the "blame game" are virtually nil. It is a practice which seems ingrained in our very nature. And, even if it was made perfectly clear that neither punishment nor humiliation would be involved, of those who made really serious blunders, how many do you think will step up and say "I really goofed, and here's how." CYA is as deeply ingrained as playing the "blame game."

Re. the last statement: Though we will never know for a certainty, I strongly suspect that no one could have handled this any better than anyone else. As Craig said, we have never experienced anything like this.

There are, however, questions that must be answered. Keep in mind that the following is based on my memory, and, lord knows, my remembering ain't what it used to be. But, I believe I heard that the levee system around New Orleans was built to withstand a category 3 hurricane. If that is correct, I'd sure like to know, since hurricanes can reach category 5, why the levees were built to only withstand a only a category 3 hurricane. I'm willing to admit there could be issues and facts of which I am unaware that would render that decision the proper one. My problem, is that I just can't think of any. If they exist, I'd sure like to hear them.

Jack, Unprecedented situations CAN sometimes lead to new solutions. For example, after the clean up has started, a "political amnesty" could be declared, which COULD allow for all those involved to state what worked and what didn't, without the looming "gotcha" from other agencies or political parties.

It will still boil down to the populace, though. As a general rule, we get what we deserve. If WE demand a reasonable, non-partison approach, we will get one.

I will look in for other's thoughts this afternoon - I am off for a 7 mile walk with da wife ...

As for Nagin, that guy's the worst flip-flopper. He was a Republican before he ran for New Orleans mayor as a Democrat. Even after his switch, he continued to contribute money to President Bush's re-election campaign. But that's not the worst of it. Earler this year, he had a DVD put together outlining the evacuation procedures in case of an impending disaster. The DVD basically told New Orlean's poor population that they were on their own.

Now, after the disaster happened and things pretty much went down as had been forseen by him and others, he's pointing fingers and saying the people of his city have been abandoned.

http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/hurricane_hotspots.aspx ..check this out,sounds like they were right on target

link

What's your take on this?

A Behind the Curtain -- an op-ed piece on the President's staged photo-op tour of New Orleans. Be sure to check out the red supporting links, too.

Sure, all politicians take advantage of photo opportunities, but this is ridiculous! I am truly sick of this two-faced administration.

I can't articulate my thoughts as well as some, so I defer to them.
Paul Krugman speaks for me. (NYTimes)

Keith Olbermann speaks for me. (MSNBC video)