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#232774 - 12/04/08 01:32 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: Murph]
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 910
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
Murph,
Have a look on Ebay. There are some great deals out there (electronic & acoustic). I purchased the Roland TD-9KX (TD-9SX in the U.S.) earlier this year before the price increase. Shortly after I added an extra tom and 14" cymbal. Most drummers have G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome). I would strongly suggest that you visit a music store and demo the different models to see what your options are.
Good luck,
Shaun

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#232793 - 12/04/08 03:29 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: Ya_basta]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5346
Loc: Marion, IA
The DTXpress IV sells at Guitar Center for $999 brand new. Sure, you don't get the bass drum pedal, throne, or sticks, but at least it is new.

If you like the Yamaha stuff, you could look at the DTXplorer.It is $300 less than the DTXpress IV. It has 18 fewer drum kits and a few other differences, but again, you are just getting started. Mario Andretti's first time behind the wheel wasn't in an Indy car. His first "car" was a lid to one of his mom's pots and he went around the house going "vrooom..... vrooom..."

Besides, the Yamaha stuff isn't "Indy" level anyway, but not bad for a newbie. :-P

Considered by most to be the best "electronic" drums would be the Roland line-up. Take another look at the TD-3SW for $995.99 at Guitar Center. The biggest benefit just by looking at it is the mesh snare drum vs. the rubber one on the Yamaha. Beating on rubber pads will make your wrists sore after a while, and since you will be hitting the snare drum the most, this is a really nice step up. When I was looking for drums a couple of years ago (after being drum-less for about 10 years), I said that I would never go back to electronic drums. As a youngster, I had a cheap (really cheap) Pearl set that was beat to heck. My first new set was a Tama Techstar. They were great for a while, but boy did they sound like 80's synth and 80'd synth only. I regretted that purchase for a long time, and eventually just gave them away.

Then I was back in the market and was looking at Gretsch, Pearl, and a few others. I was about to pull the trigger on the Gretsch when I stumbled into my local Guitar Center and just starting looking around for some cymbals that I liked. I was waiting for the sales guy to finish up with someone else, so I sat down at a Roland TD-20S. I was in love, but couldn't pay the $6,000 price tag. So then I started asking all sorts of questions about the entry level Rolands, the Yamahas, and the Pintechs that they had out to play.

After messing around for about 2 hours, I went home and started looking online to see what others thought of the brands and models. After several days of reading and research, it was clear that I needed to stick with Roland, but I had also heard that the rubber pads would drive me nuts after a while. At the time, Roland only had mesh on the snare of a TD-6 series (over my budget), or all mesh on the TD-20 (way too expensive), so I was asking about getting a TD-3 series, but upgrading the snare to mesh (it wasn't a standard feature back then). I found out that Guitar Center would give me full price credit back for the rubber snare and put it towards the mesh snare. So then I started asking about upgrading all of the toms to mesh as well, and before you know it, I had upgraded the sound module from a TD-3 to a TD-6 as well. I managed to get a TD-6SX equivilent (which wasn't out yet) for $1500 compared to the price of the TD-6SX which came out 2 weeks later for $2100. It was over my budget, but I knew it was what I wanted. Roland also had a "rebate" for a free $100 pair of over-the-ear headphones, and a free 3rd cymbal or a PD-8 rubber drum pad. I went with the headphones and the 3rd cymbal, which is great. The bell of that cymbal currently is a wood block, and the edge is a splash, but I can set it to whatever I want.

Now the TD-6SX has a new sound module and is the TD-9SX which sells for $2500. I am super happy with the set and I am very glad that I went with mesh pads, but again, you are just starting out, and you may find that the rubber pads are just fine until a few years from now when, if you stick with it, find that you are ready for the next level. Then you can just upgrade the toms, or get an even better mesh snare, or whatever.

What you need to factor in, since I am not trying to get you to burst your budget like I did, is start with the "fixed" numbers. Start with the total to spend, subtract a throne, subtract a bass drum pedal, subtract a set of sticks, subtract either headphones or an amp (do NOT hook them up to your Axioms!!!) and see what you have left, then start looking online for deals and while you are doing that, check out a music store in your area that has a few to sit down and try. Just go there, put on some headphones and plunk away. Nobody cares if you are good or not. Pay attention not only to the "fun" sounds of electronic drums, but ones that seem to sound realistic. Look for sound control options on the drum modules so that you can tweak the existing samples to your liking. Look at the responsiveness of the drums themselves. Can you play them really, really softly? How much rebound do you get from holding the drum stick between your thumb and index finger and letting the stick's tip pivot and freely bounce on the drum heads. Too little and you will struggle to get any speed built up, too much, and it is like playing with those rubber "super balls" and you will be fighting to keep things under control.

Alright, well that is WAY more than you asked for, but I hope somewhere in all of that is some useful information.
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#232806 - 12/04/08 06:54 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: nickbuol]
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 910
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
One thing to keep in mind is the sound of the rubber pads. The drums and cymbals are not perfectly quiet. There is the tapping sound on the rubber.
I had forgotten how loud an acoustic set was until I was sitting behind my friend's full blown kit (8 toms). Between the cymbals and drums my ears were ringing! Sound proof rooms are definitely a good option.
Another option with Roland electronic drums is the expansion packs you can purchase from V Expressions Ltd (vexpressionsltd.com). These are custom kits that bring an improved sound to Roland drums. For a $30 investment they are worthwhile.

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#232807 - 12/04/08 06:56 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: nickbuol]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6955
Loc: PEI, Canada
Thanks for all the info folks. Nick, a really big thank you for that big and informative post.

The biggest challenge that I have is that I am in Canada and the lesser populated Atlantic Canada to boot. The exchange rate and a lack of strong competition in the music store business keeps prices high and that 995 kit becomes listed well over $2000 in a local store here.

I have bought lots of stuff from across he border, Jeep parts mostly, but between the exchange, shipping and likely duty, a $999 set quickly approaches approaching $1500, therefore the used version for $1000, (probably negotiable to 8 or 900) starts to be much more attractive than in might look in your geographic location. Rolands are priced ridiculously high around here. I had indeed been looking for them, hoping for a nugget.

Excellent information though. Leads me to follow up questions.

1st question.
How significant are the single zone pads of the Explorer to a beginner. I'm not looking for an Indy car but by not having to worry about where I hit a pad, would I be developing bad habits or am I getting to complicated for now? Would I miss out on being able to simulate rimshots and other types of hits?

Question #2
Assuming the $995 US Roland set is going to cost me $1500 to $1600 Canadian by the time it hits my doorstep and I get a duty bill in the mail. Would the mesh snare and additional quality be worth the $600 dollars it would cost me over the Yamahas?

More than 600 actually, because I'd still be short a kick pedal. throne, etc. that comes with the used Yammies.

I love this board. So much to learn from so many.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#232813 - 12/04/08 07:05 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: Murph]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6955
Loc: PEI, Canada
Thanks Rockhead. I have most of the day in Ottawa to kill tomorrow as I have another crazy 6:00am flight. It should hold a lot more options for music stores and I'm always uncomfortable hanging out at our grand total of two local shops because there will always be somebody in there I know. Actually, I'm not a shy guy but it should be fun to try out some gear without feeling pressured into buying local.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#232821 - 12/04/08 08:04 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: Murph]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5346
Loc: Marion, IA
I still think we need to start some USA <--> Canada, super secret trading club. Sneaking gear and such across the border...

I wouldn't worry too much about the single zone just starting out. Heck, I wouldn't worry too much about it now and I've been drumming for over 26 years. The only way to get better about proper techniques is to practice. Jamming out to your favorite tunes is great fun, but you will need to really spend some time practicing. Find some good video series that you can play along with. There are also many videos on YouTube and such for training and technique.

Well, my wife just got home with some dinner, so I'm gonna go eat. Keep asking questions, and I am sorry that I didn't pay attention to you being in Canada. I know that impacts things a lot.
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#232823 - 12/04/08 08:14 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: Murph]
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 910
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
Murph,
Check out as much gear as you can. It can be a little overwhelming at first. One thing to keep in mind is if you do purchase a Roland kit you can always upgrade the components as you see fit. I waited a long time to purchase my Roland set as I didn't have the space available.
One of the best websites around for electronic drum info is:
http://www.vdrums.com/forum/
Much like the Axiom forum this group is extremely friendly and very knowledgeable.
Plus, they have a classified section advertising used equipment for sale.
Go hit some drums!
Cheers,
Shaun

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#232826 - 12/04/08 10:24 PM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: Rock_Head]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5346
Loc: Marion, IA
I can second the vdrums.com forum. Good people over there.
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#232860 - 12/05/08 12:40 AM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: nickbuol]
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
 Originally Posted By: nickbuol
I still think we need to start some USA <--> Canada, super secret trading club. Sneaking gear and such across the border...
We had one, it was called NAFTA, and it pretty much involved us selling out our natural resources, and American companies being able to flood cheap products up from Mexico.

But if someone wants to trade me driving a van full of Axiom speakers down there for them driving a truck full of .223, 7.62 Warsaw and .45ACP up here, I'm all for it.

Bren R.

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#232916 - 12/05/08 11:24 AM Re: Drummers, opinions again please. [Re: BrenR]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6955
Loc: PEI, Canada
Funny cause its so saddly true Bren.

I off to find a patient and/or deaf salesman in a Music store to play around a bit. Should be a fun thing to do before my meetings start at 5:00pm.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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