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#364248 - 01/19/12 08:28 AM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: dakkon]
BlueJays1 Offline
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Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: dakkon
I was wondering what kinds of units you guys have your equipment plugged into.

Right now i am using a no-name product... When i was in the Navy, we would use 500$ 12outlet surge suppressors. I am NOT willing to spend that much cash on a surge supressor..
I have always though that tripp lite was one of the best brands.. Does anyone here have one?
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR8...3449&sr=8-1

I also came across this one, with a built in watt/amp/voltage meter.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P...3470&sr=8-7


Get an electrician to install a whole house surge suppressor, right at the panel. That's the way to go! Then I just use basic electrical strips or protection strips at the equipment to hook up multiple devices from the outlets.
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#364253 - 01/19/12 09:29 AM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: BlueJays1]
Cork Offline
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Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 108
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
I don't think it's just the boonies that has to worry about surge surpressors and brownouts. I'm in a large surburban area and we get reasonably frequent power fluctuations; especially in the summer. I always understood that quick power drops were just as potentially harmful to electronic equipments and small spikes. (This opinion is based on hearsay and 9 EE credits in 1982 ... so not much.)

So what does the industry say, are power dropouts not a concern?

BTW, I have all my major electronic equipment (computer, receivers, large TVs) on APC UPSs. But I didn't do any research to chose APC.

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#364260 - 01/19/12 10:35 AM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: alan]
Murph Offline
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Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6955
Loc: PEI, Canada
Originally Posted By: alan
dakkon,

Unless you are out in the boonies, with frequent power outages, brownouts and the like,


That would be me. Better than it used to be but the Winters can be nasty for power.
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#364261 - 01/19/12 10:36 AM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: alan]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4220
Loc: Up yonder
Originally Posted By: alan
dakkon,

Unless you are out in the boonies, with frequent power outages, brownouts and the like, there is no requirement for using these devices (as JohnK pointed out). If you want the psychological reassurance that your equipment is better "protected" by using one, I suppose there's no harm.

Regards,
Alan


Where I live, a UPS is preferable, but a surge protector is mandatory for electronics. Black outs are not the problem, but under frequency events (aka brown outs). They toast electronic devices. A good UPS will maintain frequency.
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#364272 - 01/19/12 10:53 AM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: michael_d]
BlueJays1 Offline
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Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
What you have to worry about with brownouts (low voltage) is that it is potentially harmful to your appliances that are motorized like the air conditioner, fridge, furnace, sump pump ect. Brownouts are not really a concern for damaging your electronic equipment.

People are protecting the wrong stuff.
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#364280 - 01/19/12 11:11 AM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: BlueJays1]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4220
Loc: Up yonder

I can't agree with that. Every industrial facility and power plant I've worked at has a battery of UPS systems for the sole purpose of maintaining a steady power source to electronic devices. We do not provide that level of protection for any of the motors. The motor circuits simply trip out on under frequency, or over current.

In my home, I have spare aquastat relays for my boiler, spare 110>12V transformers, spare 12V zone valve motors, ect. I do because I have to replace them frequently.

If you know something I am not considering, I'd love to hear it.
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#364285 - 01/19/12 11:37 AM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: michael_d]
BlueJays1 Offline
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Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
When I was looking into whole house protectors I came across this thread. The data sheets are a bit over my head.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=997265&postcount=14


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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#364294 - 01/19/12 12:58 PM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: BlueJays1]
J. B. Offline
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Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
where i believe resides the usefulness of spike protectors is against burning up power supplies in electronic equipment. the protector costs much less than having equipment repaired.
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#364297 - 01/19/12 01:38 PM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: BlueJays1]
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5220
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
When I was looking into whole house protectors I came across this thread. The data sheets are a bit over my head.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=997265&postcount=14


And this is why getting "facts" from forums is taken with a grain of salt.
I've replaced power supplies and hard drives first hand that were destroyed because of a quick power outage including one of my own. CRTs that are quick power cycled can blow caps easy (sometimes replaceable, sometimes not). I also know two people who have had their houses hit by lightning. Again rare, but if you can improve the chance of surviving that event for what? a hundred bucks? then why not?

Sure, these events are rare and most electronics do have the capacity to withstand surges, but it doesn't always work as effectively as one expects.

Geez, of all the people who should know by now it's audio folk; things are made much more cheaply these days, cutting every corner on every part. The days of robust 30 year old appliances are gone. I can barely keep some of our 3 year old appliances out of the damn repair shops.
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#364300 - 01/19/12 02:11 PM Re: Surge suppressors. [Re: chesseroo]
BlueJays1 Offline
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Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
When I was looking into whole house protectors I came across this thread. The data sheets are a bit over my head.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=997265&postcount=14


And this is why getting "facts" from forums is taken with a grain of salt.
I've replaced power supplies and hard drives first hand that were destroyed because of a quick power outage including one of my own. CRTs that are quick power cycled can blow caps easy (sometimes replaceable, sometimes not). I also know two people who have had their houses hit by lightning. Again rare, but if you can improve the chance of surviving that event for what? a hundred bucks? then why not?

Sure, these events are rare and most electronics do have the capacity to withstand surges, but it doesn't always work as effectively as one expects.

Geez, of all the people who should know by now it's audio folk; things are made much more cheaply these days, cutting every corner on every part. The days of robust 30 year old appliances are gone. I can barely keep some of our 3 year old appliances out of the damn repair shops.



He also claims that a brownout WOULD NOT be responsible for the power supply failure on your computer.

Originally Posted By: tw

What do many recommend for brownout protection? A UPS. What do all laptops contain? A UPS.

Junk science is to observe something. Then make a conclusion from that observation. Many see a brownout. See electronics damage. Then *know* brownouts cause electronics damage. Junk science. Observation without underlying facts and fundamental theory is a classic junk science conclusion.

Brownouts are destructive to motorized appliances - air conditioner, refrigerator, furnace fan motor, etc. But brownouts never cause electronics damage - even those without an internal UPS.

However brownouts can be a symptom of other problems. Those other problems would explain a laptop power supply failure. Electrical anomalies include blackouts, brownouts, harmonics, noise, and surges. Each is unique. Solutions required in different locations. But solutions cannot be implemented without first defining the problem.

Low voltage and blackouts are never destructive to electronics. Otherwise power off also would be destructive. Otherwise the brownout (intentionally created inside some electronics when first powered on) would be destructive. And so the question is, "What caused that damage?" Well, best evidence is always the dead body. An autopsy is informative.

Laptop power supplies (on 120VAC) must operate uninterrupted on any voltage from 90 VAC to 260 VAC. Well beyond what is harmful to other appliances. Voltage variations (ie brownouts) do not explain that damage. In fact, every computer must work just fine even when incandescent bulbs are glowing at less than 40% intensity.

What exactly was damaged when it was located where (ie what was the table top material; what was the floor; where in relation to the breaker box; what other cables; etc)?


http://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=577596#post577596
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