Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater HT Amp Recommendation (M80v4 & VP180v3

I would have hoped that those who will buy axiom product would not be snooty highfalutin who want to spend time judging others against what they feel is correct.

I guess I was wrong, and this forum is full of the same people that drove me from the other forum.

Dakkon, consider yourself called out for being a SNOOT! With your first paragraph I am to take it that you would prefer a title like:

HT Receiver or pre amp and a Power Amp recommendations to make my newly bought Axiom M80v4 and VP180v3 speakers sound good.

if you feel the need to criticize people.. DON'T. just turn off the computer and go listen to your music and keep your opinion to yourself. If you would like to help, then how about answering the specific question.. (if you took the time to actually read the original post!)


I have a receiver (hope this is acceptable for you) that does not support 4ohm.

I can purchase a new higher end receiver that can handle the 4ohm speakers that has a better D3 210w@4ohm amplifier inside of it. It is easy as I simply phone up the store and they deliver it to me two days later.

I could also purchase an External Power Amplifier such as an Emotiva XPA-3 but I would have to order it shipped to a US postal address, then take a day off to drive out there and pick it up. Pay the taxes and duty if any to bring it back into Canada. It will give me 330w@4ohm. But it is a much larger hassle to get but still within my realm of doing if it would be noticeably better or gives other advantages that I do not realize.

For an average person, will having an external amplifier sound better than a receiver with a D3 amp inside of it?

I don't plan on listening to movies or audio at really high volumes. I live in a residential neighbourhood with other houses besides mine. I have young kids, and I want to save what is left of my own hearing. So no 100db+ from these speakers.

To give perspective, I find most movie theatres play way too loud.


is the question now really clear or is there additional information needed to answer.

Matt

I really don't think there is anyone here among us that can say unequivocally that an amp will or wont work in your situation. Honestly your the only one who can make the final decision. Given what you said about your listening habits I would say you probably don't need an external amp. I don't "need" an external amp in my setup but as time went along I found I really wanted one so I got one.

I don't think anyone here is being snooty. External amplification is a hotbed topic on the internet and we all have our opinions. I try to help as best I can without sticking my neck out too far since the "no amp " crowd can be very defensive.It is best to do lots of reading and make your own decision based on your personal requirements. As for the M80 being 4 ohm , if you look at the impedance graph it spends very little time at 4 ohms and many here drive them without problem with modest receivers .

Welcome to Axiom and welcome to the forum!

I really don't think Dakkon was trying to be snooty. It is indeed a somewhat hotly debated topic as to whether the amps included in receivers are sufficient for stereo or home theater applications. I do think in general there is some agreement that there isn't really very much difference between the amps in one receiver versus another, as long as the receiver is a decent one.

I myself had a higher end Denon receiver and thought the sound was great! Then I got my Axiom speakers (M80s at first) and started investing in separate amps -- I now have an Axiom ADA1500 (4 channels) and a vintage Parasound (3 channels). I currently have a 5.1 system in a relatively small room but do like to listen to movies and music fairly loud, often at reference levels. In my case, I definitely believe that the investment is worthwhile.

Your proposed HT room is actually quite large. If you want to achieve reference level for movies in that size room I personally doubt that the amps in your receiver will be up to the task.

By the way, if you're in Oakville, Ontario, I'm not far away and would be happy to have you come over and listen to my system sometime. (I'm in Maple and probably no more than an hour's drive from you.) That way you can make a more informed decision. Please feel free to PM me.

Good luck with your HT plans!

I really don’t have time for BS’ing on forums anymore, and generally just do a quick scan of posts that I might be interested in. But, this forum has been a haunt of mine for many years. I’ve seen a lot of members come and go. I’ve seen a lot of BS. Dakkon has been around for quite a while. I have not EVER seen him say anything condescending. If anything, he has always been helpful and informative. In fact, I am most likely considered one the snobs around here, but it isn’t because of my tastes in AV gear. Pretty much every forum regular is what I call, “Frugal”, and “Questioning”. They don’t buy into $1000 speaker cables, or that $10,000 Macintosh amps “sound” better.

So….You sir, are way off the mark. If anything, you appear to me as someone who might just be a bit sensitive.

And Axioms are not “bright”. That’s bullshiit. Even the older Ti models where not bright, and they are definitely more “detailed” than the V2’s and V3’s.

If I were in your shoes, I’d be looking at a two channel amp. 200wpc unit to drive the M80’s, then let the AVR drive the remainder of speakers. I have found the M80’s to really like power for the extra head room during those intense action scenes in movie watching. You can find some good, used amps like Rotel for a song.

Concerning amplification, I'm biased towards Pioneer Elite receivers. I've had 2 Pioneer Elites and 1 Denon. I believe the sound quality provided by the upper quality Pioneer beats the Denons dramatically. My current one was purchases around 2 years ago and is one of the SC models with 140 wpc.

For some reason, probably the difference between Denon's Audyssey and Pioneer's MCACC, I found the Denon's to be much brighter sounding and not to my liking at all. More bass also with the Pioneer and a much fuller sounding system.

This is only my opinion, of course, but where I've found sonic pleasure.

My remark about snooty is in reference to "there is a pretty big different between a receiver and amp." I get that is can be a contested topic where some people believe one thing and others believe something different. But I would say that there is more in common between the two than different.

And had the question been about if a Receiver was an Amp or should be referred to as an amp, then great to bring up the point.

If the wording on my original post was that confusing that the use of the word amp rather than receiver would leave many people confused as to what I was asking. Great, bring it up.

Perhaps I am being a bit over-sensitive, but if you took the whole first paragraph out of his post, would it have lost any meaning? Had I known that there would be a problem using the "A" word when I should have used the "R" word I probably would not have posted here.

All I was asking for is some personal experience from people who have used the product. If it's a common thing that the speakers don't sound good on a lower end Receiver designed for 8ohm and that is simple common knowledge then it's something that I'd like to know before I plug them in.

You are correct that I am the only person who can decide if it is worth it to buy a new Receiver or an External Amp. But I do value others experience as to what they found. Like it would be nice to know if a number of owners found it remarkably better when plugged into a high powered external amp, then it would be worth looking into. Likewise it would be good to know if other found that getting a modest priced external amp worked the same as the receiver it replaced then it gives you a point of reference when looking for what to buy.

It seems the only common thing that I have seen here is that most users believe that High End audio stores give biased advice to sell the product that they have. So going to them for advice is a fast way to spend more money.

Would you agree that using a common set of terms is advantageous when discussing topics that can be complex? This is all dakkon was getting at. This forum is a community that has been around for a while and people are generally friendly. You can choose to read someone's post as antagonistic, or you can choose to give someone the benefit of the doubt and assume it was written without ill intent.

Matt

Anytime someone asks about amps, the no amp crowd flock to the thread like fly's to s**t. I can highly recommend the Emotiva amps , they are very good for the price and you wont hate yourself for buying them. For me whether they sound different or better was not a factor I considered when buying an amp. A separate amp allows me a different upgrade path and it also removes unnescessary heat from the Processor portion of the receiver. I hope to add a dedicated prepro at some point. This hobby is super addictive and upgraditis gets most of us. I suspect in light of the fact you are considering an amp that at some point you will end up buying one, since once its on your mind you wont stop until you have one

That article I linked to can help with some good common sense explanations about why the no amp camp may not be as right as they think they are. I gave up arguing with those people long ago. Funny thing is some of them that argue against actually own external amplification, go figure

Richard

Well said, now maybe we can move on to the topic at hand.

Welcome, Matt. Are you in Oakville, Ontario, or another Oakville?

I have the M80s, v2, and I run them with the Onkyo HT-RC370, a receiver rated at 100 watts. My room is 14' by 16' with a 7.5' ceiling, so about a third the cubic footage of yours, but I feel I am only using a small fraction of what the receiver's power for my movies and music. I suspect that, as JohnK has said, a receiver in the 100-110 watt range would be more than sufficient for your needs.