Revel?
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Has anyone here directly compared Axiom products with Revel products sound wise?
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Re: Revel?
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Yeah. Considering options. I think Bob mentioned auditioning Revel when he was looking. I know he ended up with 100s. I'm saving for a no holds barred super system. My plan is to have enough money put away by the time I hit 40 to buy whatever I want. 34 now. Its fun to dream!
Last edited by Serenity_Now; 06/24/16 09:48 AM.
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Re: Revel?
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I'd be building a system around M100s or f208s. Where is that Bob hiding?
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Re: Revel?
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I had a chance to listen to a pair of Revel towers (maybe F12 but thought the number was higher) that were for sale used in a local audio store. Roughly same configuration as M60s except slighly larger woofers IIRC. Didn't get a chance to do a direct comparison, was thinking about taking them home and giving them a listen (ie they sounded decent) but dawdled and someone else bought them instead. Initial impression was a bit less bass than the M60s and with that came the slightly "tighter" sound I associate with smaller speakers on a stand. I don't have much luck comparing speakers unless they are in the same spot in the same room though... if the room is good or the music is good I tend to think the speaker is good too. Even then I get stuck in the "ok they clearly sound different but I have no idea which one is right or even closer to right" trap. I'm still fiddling with the listening room and still hearing big changes even though the speakers are always the same M60v4s. I hadn't been happy with the sound recently then remembered I had temporarily put the glass-topped coffee table back. Removing it made a huge difference in both imaging and soundstage... started hearing sounds outside the speaker pair again, including some seriously WTF?? sounds *way* off to one side or the other. Soundstage width is one of the areas where v4's seem to be significantly improved over the ti's in my HT system. It's amazing how little things make a difference - I had been reading a hard-cover book and realized that even having the book open on my lap made a small but noticeable change in imaging. I probably need to replace the big overstuffed chair with something smaller as well. Makes you want to go back to headphones
Last edited by bridgman; 06/26/16 06:16 PM.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Revel?
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Thanks for sharing. I am really looking to put together a system capable of startle factor. A dynamic ststem capable of genuine fear and anxiety when called upon in certain movie soundtracks. Dread even. My current system really sounds great. But huge and effortless dynamic capability is definitely lacking.
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Re: Revel?
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axiomite
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One thing that periodically surprises me is how much difference a big-ass power amplifier made each time I added one (this time going from HK 3270 receiver's 65WPC amp to a used Adcom GFA555 at >200WPC). It only allows the volume control to go a moderate amount higher before the clipping lights start to wake up, but that seems to be a very important handful of dB in terms of "slam" or whatever we are calling it these days. At least with an HT system stacking up big-ass subwoofers gets you most of the way - I was always impressed with how effortlessly John <user name escapes me>'s 4-subwoofer system handled peaks that my system couldn't touch. IIRC he was running a mix of EP600s and SVS's to take advantage of their different strengths and weaknesses... I ended up copying that on a smaller scale by adding an EP500 to my SVS PC+ 20-39 and it does make a very nice difference. EDIT - lightbulb moment... I was in PEI a few weeks ago and had a nagging feeling there was someone I should be looking up while I was there. Three weeks late, oh well... I guess I successfully derailed another thread. Sorry about that
Last edited by bridgman; 06/26/16 10:12 PM.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Revel?
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I'm using 150wpc seperates to drive the front 3 channels. The rest is driven by my 80wpc AVR. Power on hand is not an issue (I hope! ) I think it might be coming down to a higher spl design with more driver surface area. A future subwoofage upgrade is probably a good consideration. I hope you had a great time on the island. Three weeks ago was a rainy spell if I remember.
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Re: Revel?
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President connoisseur
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President connoisseur
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Hi Serenity Now,
I know what you are looking for. I love the same thing myself and my system delivers it. I really think you are way under powered to get what you are looking for. The key is loads of power for the dynamics which means not just a lot of RMS output but also lots of dynamic headroom above that. I am running my LFR1100s with a 4-channel ADA1500 which is about 700 watts RMS per speaker and lots of dynamic headroom above that. I use an ADA1500-5 for the rest of the channels and two EP800s for the subs.
Ian Colquhoun President & Chief Engineer
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Dec 2007
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Thanks for sharing. I am really looking to put together a system capable of startle factor. A dynamic ststem capable of genuine fear and anxiety when called upon in certain movie soundtracks. Dread even. My current system really sounds great. But huge and effortless dynamic capability is definitely lacking. Have you considered the LFR? Every time I listened to them over the course of the day I was at the Axiom I was more impressed. The clarity and presentation of the female voice was incredible.
Fred
------- Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: May 2014
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Hi Serenity Now,
I am running my LFR1100s with a 4-channel ADA1500 which is about 700 watts RMS per speaker and lots of dynamic headroom above that. OK, you have me very confused. with your chart http://www.axiomaudio.com/1500-amplifier it lists the ATA1500-4 at being 350watts at 4ohms and 325watts at 8ohms. I have the LFR1100 and running with the ATA1000-4 is shows me maxing out at 250watts. So do I have far more head room than I realize, or are you adding up the fronts and the backs into a single number?
Last edited by MatManBobbleHead; 06/28/16 01:06 AM.
Anthem: AVM60, Fosi DAC-Q5 Axiom: ADA1500, LFR1100 Actiive, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp, M5
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Re: Revel?
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President connoisseur
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President connoisseur
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Hi Matt,
The RMS power available to each LFR1100 using an ADA1500-4 is actually 750 watts. The total continuous output capability of the power supply is 1500 watts. Each amp channel can output 650 watts continuous. There are two amp channels driving each speaker so the maximum continuous output is being set by the power supply divided by two.
For an ADA1000-4 the maximum output of the power supply is 1000 watts continuous and each amp module is 250 watts continuous. Using a 6 ohm number for the rear the maximum continuous output available to each LFR1100 is 437 watts. Since the capacitance available for power storage is lower in an ADA1000 compared to an ADA1500 the dynamic headroom multiplier is also lower but it is still pretty good. Good dynamic headroom above the continuous power available is basically a matter that everything in the chain is capable of short bursts of power way above their continuous rating combined with the amount of capacitance available for power storage. The dynamic headroom is very important when considering your real-world overall power available for playing back a soundtrack.
Pretty soon I am going to change my system to have one ADA1500-2 driving each LFR1100. This will take the maximum continuous power available to each speaker up to 1200 watts (using a 6 ohm number for the rear) and double the dynamic headroom available to each speaker. The goal is to never hit the limits of the amplifier no matter the power being requested during the maximum dynamics of the soundtrack. And a good soundtrack will have very wide dynamics.
Ian Colquhoun President & Chief Engineer
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Re: Revel?
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connoisseur
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Thanks for that info. And when you upgrade, if you want to sell your old ADA1500-4 for a really good price I'd be interested..
Anthem: AVM60, Fosi DAC-Q5 Axiom: ADA1500, LFR1100 Actiive, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp, M5
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Re: Revel?
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Thanks Ian. You are spot on with what I'm after. So really I should be looking at a better power section. My eventual upgrade to Atmos with require an additional 2ch amp over and above my current separates. I think I will bump my current 2ch amp to side surround duty and get a new monster for R/L duty. Decisions. This route would be cheaper and less hassle for sure. Easier to sneak 1 box through the door.....
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Mar 2001
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President connoisseur
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President connoisseur
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Amplifiers blend in so nicely with all the other gear the equipment rack. It is just getting them from the front door to the audio room.
Ian Colquhoun President & Chief Engineer
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Apr 2012
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devotee
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devotee
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I managed to bring in a pair of M3 bookshelves unnoticed! 😃 Jeff
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Apr 2012
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devotee
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devotee
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Although with them now hanging on the wall their kinda obvious.
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Re: Revel?
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I managed to bring in a pair of M3 bookshelves unnoticed! 😃 Jeff I wonder if the neighbors would notice me leaving the house in a rolled up carpet.... lol. I might try renting a pro amp and see how Uber power likes my mains. I have to decide between an ada 1500 and a QSC DCA 2422 if I go the mucho amp route. Either way I have some time to decide while I save and enjoy the summer.
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Re: Revel?
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shareholder in the making
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Trevor, perhaps by the time you are ready for your dream system, a single driver speaker will be available that covers 80Hz to 20KHz. Otherwise, try to minimize the number of drivers and use a digital cross-over. Oh...and stay away from tubes, gramophones, reel-to-reel, cassette and 8-track .
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Revel?
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Lol. You shit disturber you! So I guess a 4head VCR (baller!) is out of the question for video too! No fun at all...
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Feb 2004
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serenity,
i'm using a krell fpb 300cx to power the front drivers on my lfr's and a kav 205a to power the rear drivers.
the 300cx is rated down to 2ohms @ 1200w per channel, the 250a is rated down to 4 ohms @ 500w per channel.
granted, you dont need that much power... but, to Ians comment about dynamic head room i thought i'd chime in...
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Re: Revel?
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My speakers have never sounded as muscular as when I demo'd them on a huge $$ classe amp setup at the dealer. I had always thought it was just a good room we were in. I thought I had a powerful setup. I guess it's all relative. One thing about this hobby. The more you learn the more you realise you dont know. Freaking hindsight biting me again.
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Feb 2004
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I'd tell you to enjoy what you have. I'm probably running more power than most.
Similar thing as cars.. Right? Every time i see someone with a gt3 cup car i wish i had one (kind of)...
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Re: Revel?
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I'll just have to rent one and see if big #'s make a difference worth the outlay. And will report back as usual. Pro amps are super cheap to rent. $50/month.
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Feb 2004
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The pro amps are quite popular with the dedicated theater room crowd. Very cost effective power.
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Re: Revel?
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Call me proactive.... It might rain saturday. Rented a yorkville amp at 1800 a side.. My wife says "I hope you have fun with it. But I hope it doesn't make a difference." She knows me all too well. lol.
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Re: Revel?
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President connoisseur
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President connoisseur
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I have not checked the specs of the amp you have rented but speaking in general terms these sorts of amps tend to have no dynamic headroom and limiter circuitry, so the wattage rating can be tough to make a comparison with. Does this amp have two power cords?
Ian Colquhoun President & Chief Engineer
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Re: Revel?
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I think the quoted1800 is at 2 ohms. Its a class H 3 tiered rail switch design. One 15A cord on it. Havent hooked it up yet. Wanna be sure I dont cook something. Reading manual thoroughly.
8ohm 600w 4ohm 1000w 2ohm 1800w
This is with the 2ohm voltage limiting mode engaged. burst rated at 1000/1800/2500
1000/1800/NA 4ohm mode no limiting mode. burst rated at 1800/3500.
I will run it in limited 2ohm mode so I reduce the risk of letting the smoke out of my speakers.... I expect a noise floor when I hook this up. No idea how it will respond to my puny speakers.
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Mar 2001
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President connoisseur
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What are you using for speakers?
Ian Colquhoun President & Chief Engineer
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Re: Revel?
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Mordaunt Short Mezzo 6's.
Amp in system and level matched. Running amp wide open (no attenuation) with preout level lowered to compensate. 1db volume changes correspond to 1db spl in room. All should be well gain wise. Slight hiss at 2' from speakers with no signal playing. Quiet at mlp.
Just starting to listen... I might get brave and go to 4ohm full voltage mode.
I am just barely lighting the second meter light at 75db. Its still asleep.
This is fun.
Last edited by Serenity_Now; 07/01/16 01:15 PM.
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Re: Revel?
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President connoisseur
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I would be careful doing this without a blessing from the speaker manufacturer. Our M80HP, M100, LFR880HP, and LFR1100s are designed to handle crazy power (regular M80s and LFR880s crossed into a subwoofer are good too). But most speaker manufacturers will not recommend you do this and the speakers will blow up.
Ian Colquhoun President & Chief Engineer
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Re: Revel?
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Thanks I am being very careful and will not go full voltage mode. This thing has scary power. I no longer beleive all amps sound the same. At all. This one is ragged and a little bit slow sounding. (If that is possible.) But holy snap the power. It just sounds like its not even trying. This is what I want. I turned down the L/R preamp output by -6db. I didnt touch the sub gain level. This should mean under 60hz I am losing bass output in stereo mode. The bass sounds fuller and punchier. Everything sounds more impactful. Uh oh.
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Re: Revel?
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I'm tempted to exchange the yorkville for 2 smaller studio amps at 560w bridged. They were all out when I picked this one up. This is just great. I want to try with a "cleaner" amp setup. This is meant for concert PA sound. It still sounds very good. I'm being fussy.
To all you Axiom owners in Canada-
Step 1: Rent an uber amp from long and Mcquade for a month and check it out. Pretty cool stuff even on my lesser speakers.
Step 2: curse me out and try to figure out how to budget for an ada 1500 setup. Like I'm doing.
BE CAREFUL. Lol.
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Sep 2004
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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When you posted that you wanted gobs of CLEAN power, I was going to tell you to just buy the Axiom amp. It's only money, and I like spending other peoples'!
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Revel?
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Joined: Aug 2004
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axiomite
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axiomite
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It might be worth a quick check to make sure the amp isn't punching up the bass response a couple of dB but what you are describing seems to match what I'm experiencing with a known (or at least believed-to-be) flat-response amp.
Last edited by bridgman; 07/01/16 05:37 PM.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Revel?
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I might take some measurements without subs involved to confirm before and after amps. AVR vs Seperate vs Pro Amp. I dont expect them to measure any differently than when I tested before. Depends on the weather tomorrow. So far you are on the money John.
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Re: Revel?
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One thing to note about this amp is the preout signal has to be as high as possible to avoid amplifying the preamp noise floor. I expect all high gain pro amps to be very similar. This could be an issue if mixing pro amps with consumer gear with lower gain. I have made arrangements to try out 2 studio amps bridged at 560w/8 ohms each. For less rental fee ta boot. The noise floor and seeming crosstalk between channels makes this a poor choice for critical listening. (Surprise) )My previous setup doesnt have the dynamics this yorkville does, but sounds like a scalpel by comparison. This is more like a cleaver. A very enjoyable cleaver. The measurements show no obvious embellishment of low frequencies with pink noise above the crossover point. I'm too nervous to run full range test signals (no subs) through my towers with this amp at reference level.
Last edited by Serenity_Now; 07/02/16 02:21 PM.
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Re: Revel?
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Went through the studio amps rental test. Junk. Neither of them would produce piano without audible distortion at certain frequencies... worse when bridged. What!? There is a 3ch ADA-1500 right now on sale in a used USA audiomart. Tempted. I re-rented the yorkville after reading how to properly set preamp and amp gain levels. Definitely making plans for a permanent high powered solution now.
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