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Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431279 02/13/19 11:48 PM
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Send the warm air here before I start hibernating.


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
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Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431289 02/15/19 01:35 AM
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I wish you all out there could hear my M5/pioneer system in my living room. No matter what I play, no matter how poorly recorded or the genre or decade of the recording, the M5s are completely invisible. Almost everything I play sounds like it's coming from beyond the front wall and the sound extends to the sides almost without bound. The holography is simply outstanding proving you don't need to spend a fortune to get great sound.

What you have to give up though is WAF. I've only been able to achieve this because I've used the 29% rule: the distance from the mid-point of the driver to the side walls is 29% of the room length and the distance from the driver plane to the front wall is 29% of the room width. My M5s are set up along the room length - not width.

My living room is 22' long by 10' wide. My M5s are 6.4' from each side wall and 2.9' from the front wall. This puts the M5s 9' apart.

I then positioned my MLP so that it forms an equilateral triangle with the M5s. That puts me 9' away from each M5 and a little more than a foot away from the back wall.

I then toed in the M5s, by pivoting them while keeping the front fixed, so the tweeters are pointed a foot behind my head. I've used one of Serenity's panels for rear wall absorption.

My living room has been arranged around my speakers and that's just the way I like it. The effect is simply uncanny and that's all that counts.

You might want to try the 29% rule when she's out for "book club". smile

Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431300 02/15/19 09:26 AM
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Never heard of the 29% rule. Cool you found a pleasing ratio in your room.

For anyone tuning in, your takeaway from this should be it doesnt cost a lot of money to get great results, You just gotta work within your means.

DIY treatments and considering how energy behaves is really at the heart of the medium of sound; thats the best way to get there pragmatically. The tough part is integrating it into a functional living space.

Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431301 02/15/19 01:23 PM
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No doubt you've heard of the rule of thirds. This rule and the 29% rule are discussed in the section called "monitors" in the article below.

Admittedly I don't have the 2' minimum to my back wall as described in the article. I only have 16". I've had to trim my bass by 6dB as a result. The Pioneer does not have bass management so I can't use a sub to solve this. I may continue to experiment by moving the speakers closer to each other and then moving my MLP closer to increase my distance to the back wall as the article suggests. That may negatively affect the holography though.

I'm also considering removing the wall.

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431308 02/15/19 09:40 PM
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Definitely take out the darn wall. Just getting in the way of Audio nirvana.

Thanx cool read. Always fun to experiment with different room ratios. Although most are similar, and considering the golden ratio was created in ancient Greece. A different outlook makes minimum room revamp and sometime great results.

For the WAF it's best to have kids around. Play their movies etc. If you get them engaged enough and exited that they're feeling it. Should be enough for the wife to say sure. take up the room.

My kids friends and my siblings never want to leave once they've said. It's better than a theater minus the 3D

Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431309 02/15/19 09:51 PM
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Brendo, I've been looking at taking out the wall. The minor problem is, the roof will fall down. I think the solution is to hide a crane in my neighbor's back yard and hitch it to my roof. They won't notice because they're perpetually stoned.


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431310 02/15/19 10:16 PM
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I have found that placing speakers on the narrow wall pointing down the long axis always results in better sound than placing them on the wide wall pointing down the short axis.

Proper placement makes a huge difference.

Congratulations on finding your sweet spot.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431311 02/15/19 11:49 PM
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Agreed. I think the reasoning for arranging across the shorter dimension is 2-fold: 1. potential for improved bass by locating the speakers further from the front wall and the MLP from the back wall and 2. Improved integration with side-wall reflections.

The problem with my place is whoever architected it 55 years ago, must have had a hate-on for audio. In the living room, setting up along the length is all I could do and for various reasons, it sounds better than along the width.

Between my living room and the basement, I have two different listening environments. Upstairs is intimate and downstairs it's a much larger and spacious sound.

BTW, I can't do what you did at your place, Phil. My speakers and MLP need to be positioned just so because I don't listen casually. I've tried portable speakers for the deck for example and I can't get into it because a) the fidelity is not there and b) I can't position them to evoke the emotion I desire.

Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431313 02/16/19 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted By Mojo
I can't position them to evoke the emotion I desire.


The desire itself isn't enough of an emotion for you?

Re: Out with the old and in with the new
Mojo #431315 02/16/19 03:17 AM
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Hee hee, Charles. I think we both share the same affliction of auditory addiction with an Axiom predilection but certainly speaker model confliction.


A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
Air Force, Freedom
had v2
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