Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie.

Ha ha. Yes. The dreaded upgraditis! I've got the dreaded research and experimentitis!

Agree bridgman, i have doubts over the real " upgrade in the as801 over what i already have as far as power supply, but lots more connectivity. ADA 555? Nice. That thing looks like a beast! Do you have thread going on your ADA amps somewhere? If not i'd love to hear what your initial impressions are if you get around to your project.

I'm gonna get a cd/blueray/dvd ( suggestions?)... player and a reasonable outboard DAC for streaming off computer and focus on dialing in my positioning and my space for " room treatments"etc. And some quality (reasonable $$) cables and interconnect.

I think they are is some truth to how an amp "sounds" but i think you need to have revealing neutral speakers to hear those differences and those differences are subtle i believe.

I remember hooking up my old 2 way bass reflex no name speakers to a 125 watt rms JVC ( this is 25 years ago or more ) and they really came alive from what i remember. I had them hooked up to low grade low power reciever, can't recall what it was but the difference was incredible. I mean it was still probably not great but the difference was tangible. I bet those difference between electronics is true they are just very subtle and maybe only detectable to really well trained ear with music they know really well. I think the larger "gains" ( no pun intended ) is from as MOJO put it, in he source or quality of the recording you are playing.

Good thoughts all. Fun stuff!

Haven't listened to the ADA1500's yet... I guess maybe I should try to hook them up with existing equipment first before I go all the way to LFR1100's / DSP's / ADA1500's.

That seems like a more achievable goal

Recently sloth has worked pretty well for me. I ordered a set of LFR1100's a year or so ago but I was working pretty much 24/7 and never had time to set them up, so the boxes sat unopened in the front hall.

Fast forward to April this year. Just as I was getting close to setting them up, Ian announced the active LFR1100's and I thought "hey, I haven't opened the passive ones yet". Talked to Ian and arranged to trade up to the actives. They were ready in September, and after a few false starts (sorry Debbie) I picked them up, along with new DSPs and a second ADA1500 since the actives need 10 channels of amplification.

Yes it's December now and yes this is a bit embarrassing. I'm mostly keeping quiet until I have a chance to get everything out of the boxes and hooked up. Otherwise it's a bit too much like an old Joe Walsh song...

"I have a mansion but forget the price...
ain't never been there, they tell me it's nice"

I totally understand the being busy thing and working 24 / 7. I’m enjoying some downtime but it’s about to get very busy and the hobbies get put away when that happens.

I’m fascinated by the lfr1100 and the dsp and the quintet amplififaction. I first saw this with the Brystons model t actives. ( although with less amplification ) But with the omni directional setup I bet it’ is ( or in your case going to be ) spectacular.


Let me know how it sounds or if it works out to hook up those ADA. You’re the perfect candidate to test m60ti with an ADA 1500. And with a tubeDAC too. Or with any pre and ADA I guess. Would love to know your take on that.

Good info on the BBC dip. I’d never heard of that or knew about the 2-3 k dip. Interesting.
Thanks for the extra notes there too with listen position and quirks.
I’ll be trying a further listening position next. I’ve been finding that less toe in is better so far. Just listened to Tragically Hip “ In Violet Light” CD album. Amazing. Especially track 4 “ the GoodLife might have to weaken” and track “ dire wolf”. WOW. I actually find myself talking out loud to no one saying “ my god! “ or other expletives of amazement. So addicted. So much fun!

Again , I know I’m operating in bubble but it’s hard to imagine it getting better. Until one day I’ll put on those glasses that MOJO was talking about.

One quirk I’m finding is a seem to get more vocal “ localizing” just slightly right of center. I played with balance but all other sounds are equal loudness. Just vocals. Sounds like the lead vocalist is just to the right of center. I’ve noticed it with Diana Krall and kd Lang as well as with just now Gord Downey but he was the closest to center. Out of phase? This is reaching beyond my technical understanding.....Any thoughts?

Quick edit add on..... could the vocal thing be a room boundary?

If your right speaker is closer to a room boundary than the left, you will hear vocals closer to the right. Best thing to do is listen to mono pink noise to help you center the image.

A bit more toe in on the left or less toe in on the right can also help with imaging.

Thanks mojo. Appreciate it. Cheers.

If you think it has to do with Phase of the speaker, Use a 9v. battery just touch the Amp. end of the wire to the 9v. while watching the drivers they should all move outwards when in correct phase.

Brendo. Thanks. Good tip. I’ll try it. I did some reading....... I think I should have said polarity. Phase is something else that’s a bit more esoteric. I don’t know how to explain it but it makes sense when I read the difference between polarity and phase. It’s got something to do with timing and the leading edge of sound waves. I’ll stop there because I’m probably gonna make a mess of describing it. But what I read was quite interesting. Anybody out there with a simple way to explain polarity versus phase?

Setup the Xmas treetoday. BingCrosby crooning away in the background. Sounding lovely on m60s. . A little Vince Guaraldi too. Nice sounds with the hush of brushes on snares piano plunks and standup bass. See even dads can have fun putting up the Xmas decor. ( with one ear turned to the soundstage).

Happy Weekend.

Polarity refers to whether two pressure waves are in compression or rarefaction. Phase refers to where specifically in their compression or rarefaction stages they are.

Say you are listening to drums in mono on two speakers that are connected with correct polarity and are far away from any boundaries. The drivers of both speakers should move out and in together. When they move out, the air is in compression. When they move in, the air is in rarefaction.

If you were to place a microphone at your listening position and record how the air pressure varies with time from each one separately, you'd end up with two waves. The "top" (positive) part of each wave would be the compression. The "bottom" (negative) part of the wave would be the rarefaction. We refer to them as positive or negative with respect to the resting state (no movement of the speaker drivers) which is no compression or rarefaction. Since the drivers move together, so do these waves; both waves occur at the exact same time. At your listening position, when both speakers are on, they add up to a bigger wave that has the exact same shape but a larger pressure than each constituent wave. You hear a solid beat that is tight, articulate, room-filling and emotionally satisfying.

Let's suppose however that one driver was slightly "slower" than the other. In that case, one would start before the other. So you'd have two waves again like before but they would not be "rising and falling" together. In other words, they would not be synchronized; the two waves would not be in phase. They're still the same shape as before but not coincident in time. At your listening position, they add up to a bigger wave sometimes but not at other times. You hear a distorted beat that is soft, fuzzy, flat and emotionally confusing.

Phase displacement can be translated into a time displacement with some simple math. If the two waves are out of phase enough, their polarity may change. This happens when one wave starts going positive while the other starts going negative. Another way to say this is when one speaker starts to move in while the other is starting to move out. This is the condition where they are out of phase by 180 degrees and the polarity of one is inverted with respect to the other.

Note that, for many reasons, two speakers will never be in perfect phase alignment. With digital filtering and active speakers though, you can get pretty darned close.

So bottom line here is get the wiring correct and Brendo's suggestion of a 9V battery for woofer testing is a good one.

P.S. a good analogy to understand polarity vs phase is two pin-wheels with each half painted a different color. If the colors are perfectly "aligned" on both as they spin, they are in phase and of matched polarity. If one starts to slow down relative to the other, the phase between them changes. Eventually they may reach a point where the top and bottom of them are two different colors and this is where they've switched polarities.

Wow thanx for the awesome analogy.
Couldn't have explained so clearly my self.

But they are totally related due to if we switched the polarity it would in turn switch the Phase. Which can cause such anomalies.
I actually learned that 9v. trick from an Axiom video with Debbie a few years ago.

I highly recommend viewing the Axiom youtube. Lots of info.
No B.S. As of recent there hasn't been to many released, but the older ones with Alan and Debbie have tons of detailed set up.

There's even one of turning your center upside down in case you'd like to put it really low. In the vid. Debbie even shows you, To simply turn the drivers so the Axiom badge is in correct place.