Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater One last HSU/SVS question??

I'm sorry but Axiom is only allowed so many HSU/SVS questions (as per the SubWoofer Manufacturers Bulletin Board Agreement of 1995) and this post uses up the 2004 quota.

Please refrain from posting about all subwoofers except Axiom, until January 1st. 2005.

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Looking at your post, don't you think it's a little of the pot calling the kettle black?

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Not at all. I wasn't defending any purchase I've made, you were. You say you weren't?

I quote you verbatim "I'm shocked and a little disappointed that Axiom would make that statement. I have serious doubts that the EP500 would "Largely Outperform" the SVS PC-Ultra. I have put my Ultra up against more then one sub and have yet to see it handily beat. Some have come close and they have ALL been smaller HSU's but none to date have gone as deep and none have maintained the control that the SVS has showed." I don't know how you define "defending your purchase," but that fits mine.

P.S. Read Jon's most recent posts. He now admits he made an honest error. The Axiom employee did NOT mention the ultra specifically.

If your "pot calling the kettle black" comment was in reference to my using some of the same confrontational, challenging, tactics you used in your posts, such as "Well.....................................?" I plead guilty as charged. I figured if you felt comfortable challenging Axiom on a "claim" they may have made, you certainly wouldn't object if I challenged your unsupported opinion.

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My point is simple and if you didn't get it here it is again. If in fact these subs are soooooooo good, Axiom should prove it.

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My question, "what's you point," had no reference to Axiom's claims and your challenge that they "prove" it. Here, again, is your comment verbatim:

"But then again, if they are that good, how long will be it be before HSU and SVS who are true subwoofer manufactures come out with something new that blows them out of the water?"

I ask you again, what is the point of the statement "how long will it be ..........etc? As I said, someone is always bringing out a product that top the previous product. Again, I ask. So? That statement seems designed simply to insult Axiom by saying no matter how good their new subs are, some REAL sub makers will soon bring out something better and put them in their place. You seem to be implying is that because Axiom is not "true" subwoofer manufacturer, those who are, will make better subs. It ain't necessarily so.

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What exactly has been blown out of proportion? I'm lost on this one. I posted based on some comments that an Axiom employee made. I then re-posted with some questions for Alan and a whole lot of other people felt the need to pipe up.

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You said "As I have said before there are a lot of claims being made about the EP500 and EP600 that in all honesty are not much more then marketing hype. A LOT of claims. I've only heard one ALLEGED claim ALLEGEDLY made by an Axiom employee in a private phone conversation. Yet you choose to characterize this ALLEGED statement as "marketing hype." Was that supposed to be considered complimentary? If you are referring to anything stated about these subs on the Axiom web site itself, OF COURSE that's marketing, and EVERYBODY knows it's unsupported advertising, and NOBODY is saying that it's true. The truth is we have no independent CLAIMS on the performance of theses subs. So to say "I have serious doubts that the EP500 would "Largely Outperform" the SVS PC-Ultra as you stated, is no more, nor less, unreliable than stating otherwise. Plus we had people accusing Alan of saying things he didn't say. This all adds up to "being blown out of proportion."

John, I had no objections to what you said, I objected to the way you chose to say it. I'm not the only one that found them confrontational, challenging, insulting to Axiom, baseless, cynical, rude and unnecessary. Yes you've got the right to say what you want. You also must bear the consequences of doing so.

This is getting old real fast but I just can't help myself from feeling that I'm on the stand and it's my turn to talk.

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You say you weren't?

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You got it. I wasn't. Going to call me a liar now?

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I figured if you felt comfortable challenging Axiom on a "claim" they may have made, you certainly wouldn't object if I challenged your unsupported opinion.

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I think it has more to do with the fact that you didn't like my opinion but I can't prove it either way and unlike you, I don't make claims to know what you meant when you post. I also must have missed the memo with the news that you got appointed the Axiom spokesperson. I asked Alan a question, not you.

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how long will it be ..........etc?

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Looking back I can see that my remark was probably not worded the best. But I stand firm on my basic point. Do I think that SVS and HSU who basically do nothing but manufacture subs make better ones then Axiom? Yep, I do. If you don't agree, cool and who knows I may be wrong but time will tell. Last time I checked however SVS and HSU's reputation when it comes to subs is second to none. Can Axiom make the same claim? I'm not talking about speakers here, just subs which is what this discussion is about.

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You seem to be implying is that because Axiom is not "true" subwoofer manufacturer, those who are, will make better subs. It ain't necessarily so.

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That is your opinion and it differs from mine but that is what a discussion like this is all about. I don't agree but again, time will tell.

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these subs on the Axiom web site itself, OF COURSE that's marketing, and EVERYBODY knows it's unsupported advertising, and NOBODY is saying that it's true.

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It's funny how many threads I have seen in here condemning other manufactures for making unsubstantiated claims. From what a receiver will push in the way of power to what a cable can and can not do all the way to speaker break-in. Apparently those same thoughts go out the window when it's an Axiom product.

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I have serious doubts that the EP500 would "Largely Outperform" the SVS PC-Ultra as you stated, is no more, nor less, unreliable than stating otherwise.

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Perhaps but at least factual third party testing has been done on the SVS.

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I'm not the only one that found them confrontational, challenging, insulting to Axiom, baseless, cynical, rude and unnecessary.

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My sincere apologies if anyone was offended but I stand by my post and every other post in this thread. If you find my post's baseless, cynical, rude and unnecessary again I'm sorry. Perhaps ignore them and move on. You report that some found my post harsh. I also find it interesting that I have had a few people report that they had no issue of any kind with it. I guess it just comes down to the way we all take things.

OK, enough. I found your post harsh and a bit unsubstantiated in and of itself. I wasn't going to get into this, but damn, dude... Have you compared the two? If not, then hey, lighten up on Axiom. If you haven't heard a product, then how can you make the claim?

Nevermind Ken. There is no hope. He just continues to deny what he put in black and white. It's a waste of time.

Could I gently suggest that this thread is getting a bit too intense and personal ? If a few misplaced words are enough to push us over the edge, maybe we need to step back a few feet.

have you guys ever see the Frequency Res. graph of the EP500 and EP600? I keep hearing how good they are but it would be nice if we get to see something, maybe it's time for someone to compare them side by side, I would LOVE to see how the EP stack up with others. ;-)

Here's a link with some curves. Haven't compared them to other subs yet. The one interesting thing is the behavior at very high volumes and very low frequencies, which I assume is a result of the DSP kicking in and reducing volume to keep the sound clean.

Hi Jack !!

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There is no hope. He just continues to deny what he put in black and white.

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Gimme a break. I'm not denying anything. I have stood fast on my position. I also didn't think you would go as far as to call me a liar, but that appears to be what you are doing.

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It's a waste of time.

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Well dam, we finally agree on something.

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Have you compared the two?

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That is not the point.

You guys are all caught up in the Ultra aspect of it. Part you missed was I don't care which SVS and HSU models Alan was talking about. I just want to know which ones. Is that a difficult question? Jack is under the impression I need to defend my purchase. Two things wrong with it. First, does he really think I care what he thinks? Second, I don't need to defend anything to anyone. Thinking otherwise is somewhat arrogant. This went past the whole Axiom vs. a SVS Ultra a long time ago. Alan mentioned two competing subs. I want to know which ones. What the hell is wrong with that question? I may have worded it wrong and have already apologized and clearly stated that if my initial post offended anyone I was truly sorry. I'm not doing it again.

You guys have blown this into far more then it was intended to be. So STOP pointing your holier then though finger at me. Get off your high horse already and please stop telling me what I meant in my posts and what I was thinking in one of my posts. It's dam annoying and trust me, your both wrong.

You can do this

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and cut and paste all day long but I'm done with this thread. This went nowhere fast and if it makes you feel better, blame me.