Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater AV receivers/Amps confusion, please help.

Ok folks, I'm probably jumping the gun a little on something I may never need, however, I'm curious and need educated. I've never owned seperates or amps to go with an AV receiver. I see a lot of discussion on these boards about Outlaw, Rotel, etc....


So here I go...I have the Denon 2805:
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7.1 A/V Receiver with Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic IIx & DTS ES Discrete 6.1 • Dolby Digital Surround EX, Pro Logic IIx decoding with Cinema, Music and Game Modes • dts ES Discrete 6.1 and Matrix 6.1 decoding • dts Neo:6 Stereo to Surround decoding • dts ES 96/24 5.1 decoding for DVD Video • Analog Devices HammerHead SHARC 32 bit floating point DSP processor • New 7.1 channel Auto-Setup and Room EQ function with included DENON microphone DM-S305 • 7 Channels equal power amplifier section • 100 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD) • 135 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD) • 16 Analog Devices, 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration • Real 24 bit, 96 kHz Digital Interface Receiver • 24 bit, 96 kHz A/D conversion on all Stereo analog inputs (Not EXT. Inputs) • Pure Direct mode defeats Video, Front Panel Display circuitry and with Analog sources the Digital circuitry • ALPHA 24 Processing on Front Channels • Adjustable High and Low Pass Crossover (40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250Hz) • 3 Assignable Component Video inputs (100MHz Bandwidth), with On-Screen Display • Video Conversion of Composite to S-Video and/or to Component, with on-screen display • 7 sets composite and "S" video inputs • 7.1 external wide bandwidth (100 kHz) inputs for multi-channel formats, such as DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD • 5/6/7 Channel Stereo • Digitally regulated volume control with .5dB increment adjustments and step range of -80 to +15 • Audio Delay adjustment to match audio signals with video signals(0-200ms) • Personal Memory Plus • 7 assignable digital inputs (5 Optical, 2 Coaxial) • 2 Optical digital outputs • 11 analog inputs including built-in AM/FM tuner • True 2 Source, 2 Zone functionality with Discrete Power, Source Select and Volume control for each zone • (1)Multi-Zone stereo pre-amp level audio outputs, fixed or variable level • (1) Multi-Zone Composite Video output • Power Amplifier Assign function, lets you assign 2 of the 7 amp channels to drive Zone 2 speakers directly • Direct Access Tuner presets by remote • Glo-Key pre-programmed remote control with learning function • RS-232C Port for Third Party Control Systems • Remote I/O ports • Assignable +12v triggers (2)
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Speakers M60ti's, VP150, EP350, 4 Qs8's

Currently the system is up in my living room and all is wonderful, but I'm worried that once I finish my basement HT/recroom, the room is going to be to big. So I'm curious if adding an amp/amps would help for larger rooms. Again, I don't know anything about amps, but I"m hearing a lot about the Outlaw M200 monoblocks, and also the 7100 7.1 amp. What are your opinions on if I could make use of one of these to improve my system, or is the Denon adequate? When using amps, does the receiver still process the surround like Dolby EX and DTS ES, and the amp just gives you additional power? I still want to make use of my Denons guts....

Below is the room I'll be using soon. The speakers actually won't be that far apart, I'll have a 110" wide screen on the wall and the speakers will sit on a platform below the screen.




yours truly,

Amp stupid Sirquack.

you are half right, and half wrong..

1st- if you use an external amp, the denon WILL do all the processing and decoding of the source material.. so, as you mentioned, the DTS, Dolby digital EX, etc., will all be decoded and run thru the denons processors. the added amps are just for power only.

2nd- the power levels of the receiver and amp do not 'piggy-back' on each other.. in other words, if the denon is puting out 100 wpc, and you use an amp that puts out 150 wpc, then you will just be putting out the 150w from the amp. you dont 'combine' the two. once you hook up the external amps to their respective channels(fronts, center, surrounds), the amps in the denon will shut down, and just send the source signal to the amp, which will then power it to the speakers.. does that make sense? i hope so.

keep in mind, the 100wpc that the denon is rated, might not be with all channels driven. so, if you get a true 5 or 7 channel dedicated amp, or monoblocks, you will be getting a TRUE 100w or 150w(which ever you get) output to the speakers.

i myself have contemplated getting the marantz 9000 amp, that would give me 150 dedicated to 5 channel.. but as it is, i dont turn it up all the way, so i ask myself , "do i really need it"?

bigjohn

Hey Randy,

Congrats on the new room; condolences on the upgradeitis.

Somebody will undoubtedly declare that you will continue to suffer anemic midrange and harsh highs unless you buy a separate amp. Somebody else might offer that it's unlikely you'll ever use the existing dynamic power you have at your disposal and that it could not possibly matter.

Personally, my opinion is that you're probably better off spending that money doing something to make your loved ones happy than on upgrading what is already a pretty damn nice receiver.

If you get an amp, you'd just hook it up to the pre-outs of your Denon and continue to use the Denon for the processing and control, no longer employing the corresponding Denon amplifier channels.

I know that's a big room, but you won't really be sitting too far away from the speakers, and it seems to me that an honest 100 wpc would be really pretty freakin loud.

(This post offered free of charge solely as opinion based on personal experience. It is not sponsored by any manufacturer or corporate entity, and is unsupported by scientific publications. No warranty expressed or implied. Use at your own risk. Void where prohibited by law. Have a good beer.)

- Tom

thanks so much Tom and Bigjohn, I didn't mention that I have 9' ceilings also. Another concern I have is accoustic treatments, or whatever you call them. I'm sure I'll have a lot of echoing at first until I get carpet, furniture, etc... Only time will tell....

I would go out on a limb here and suggest that the acoustic treatments may be more important than adding power to the system. On the other hand, you may not need to do either.

i would suggest you put deer whistles in all corners of the room then wrap all your equipment in tin foil.

Be careful with the deer whistles. I installed a set on my car backwards and a herd of deer chased me for weeks.

funny lmao

funny, I remember back in 91 when my wife bought her first brand new car after college to replace a 77 Gremlin anyway she bought a 91 brand spankin new Pontiac Grand Am with a quad 4 get up and go engine... Being raised on a farm in Iowa, her dad talked her into putting deer whistles below the bumper, out of sight, as deer are a real problem in these parts. A week later after we made our monthly Walmart run, she smacked into a deer. Those whistles are worthless....

I will echo what others have stated. Your current receiver should be ample for your listening area. By the way, from what I have come to understand, Denons are fairly true to their advertised power ratings.

Lastly, keep in mind that there is a dimnished scale of returns regarding power and SPL. In other words, if your current system is 100w/channel and you get 110db on a sound meter when your receiver volume is set at 'X', by switching to a 200w/channel receiver (increasing the watts by 100%)you will not get a 100% increase in SPL at volume 'X'. Actually, you would only be at 113db...a net gain of 3 decibals.

Here is a good article to read on the subject:

http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/wattsvsdBs.php