Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Opinions on my new setup

I always enjoy your posts, John. Give 'em hell.

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They do no deserve to be lumped in with the charlatans, but the claims they make should be tested, nonetheless.

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I agree totally but the coin also flops on the other side. If manufacture X say's their power cord for example makes a difference and someone say's it doesn't, would you not agree that both sides need to provide proof? If someone states that they heard an audible difference in sound would that make them a liar? I don't think the onus would be on the person making the claim to prove it right or wrong, the onus would be on the naysayer to prove him wrong. Granted I'm not in the "My new power cord gave me way more bass etc" camp but I do buy into the value of a decent cord.

For all who care, this is being debated all over the net. A current one that is getting a little out of hand can be found here:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

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I always enjoy your posts, John. Give 'em hell.

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Thank you. I'm here all week! Next show starts...............as soon as I find another post I disagree with.

Hmmm. It seems BigWill was responding to JohnK.

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would you not agree that both sides need to provide proof?

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Ideally, yes. But in cases where money is changing hands, I believe the burden of proof lies squarely on the shoulders of those who stand to profit.

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Hmmm. It seems BigWill was responding to JohnK

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Maybe? To many dam John's around here. Hard to keep track these day's.....but good catch on pointing it out and making me look like a complete fool!

This made so much sense that I just wanted to give everyone a chance to read it again:
Peter wrote:
"But in cases where money is changing hands, I believe the burden of proof lies squarely on the shoulders of those who stand to profit."

If someone says that they hear something and another says they don't, I don't think the burdon of proof is on the second person at all. I would ask "Was it under controlled, double-blind conditions?" If not, I refer you to Bren's post. Haven't we all, at some point, thought we heard a difference at a time when we expected to based upon a change, only to realize that the change hadn't been made in the way we thought? I have.

JohnK is a man of science, logic and, in my opinion, principals. All he is saying is: "Where's the proof"?

It is soooo easy to hear what you WANT to hear. Until I sit down in a double-blind test and hear a difference, I think it's silly. If another person sits down in a double-blind test and statistically, DOES pick the "correct" power cord more often, than I will believe there's a difference. But otherwise, let me say in a non-PC way: "It's crap".

When I first got into Hi-Fi back in the 60s, I read the simple answer to much of this:

Keep the power cords away from the signal wires. If they must cross; cross at 90 degrees.

Works for me, at no extra charge. (But...If a person has the extra funds to purchase the goodies to get what he or she "thinks" will add even one iota of improvement to the sound, and it adds to the fun of the hobby, then by all means....)

You're right. I should have added "whatever floats your boat"! People can spend their money on whatever pleases them; it's their right and none of my business. I would encourage it.

My concern are the dealers who DO profit in continuing to propagate very expensive add-ons to people, based almost entirely on these myths that continue to be spread by people who haven't A/B'd them themelves. Those who are new to this hobby will spend money needlessly because they "read somewhere", that someone's cousin heard a difference. People in favor of these add-ons will say that I have my head buried in the sand and that I'm closed-minded. I'd counter that with: "If you think that it's not possible that you're hearing a change based upon perceived expectations, than I would say that your head is buried in the sand and that you're closed-minded. A/B them under controlled circumstances, then talk to me.

Let me ask this: Has anyone ever opened a high end magazine and read an ad for an add-on product that said: "We took 100 people into a room and, under controlled circumstances and double-blind testing procedures, 78 of them preferred the system that used our product?" I've never seen an ad like that. Why? Because the people that are making money by selling this crap won't run the tests! Their sales will be much better if they simply put a few quotes in there:
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"I can't believe how your product just "opened up" my soundstage! The violins' warmth and texture overwhlmed me to the point of tears. Placing the small pyramid over the power supply in my disc transport was easy, and it's a conversation piece for my friends (who are astounded at the great sound as well). Thank You!"
MB, Toledo
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So let me say again: If someone feels that they want to buy products like this, and they feel it increases their enjoyment, more power to them. But that doesn't mean I don't hold those dealers and manufacturers responsible for propagating myths that others will take on blind faith.

Who does it hurt? Well, my take on it is that if the hundreds or sometimes thousands of dollars that people pay for these items were instead put into better speakers, room treatments, more SACDs, a nicer or bigger TV, or even their kids college fund, they would go to a far better use.

And besides, dishonest people and those who market their products dishonestly p*ss me off, and this field is full of them.

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Let me ask this: Has anyone ever opened a high end magazine and read an ad for an add-on product that said: "We took 100 people into a room and, under controlled circumstances and double-blind testing procedures, 78 of them preferred the system that used our product?" I've never seen an ad like that. Why? Because the people that are making money by selling this crap won't run the tests! Their sales will be much better if they simply put a few quotes in there:

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no. but does it say that on your box of cereal no. does it say that in car ads? no so if no other product is held to the tested double blind standard why should power cables. everthing is sold by marketing. did we all buy bose? no we spent a little time to research and found out bose is way overpriced and does not live up to there marketing. even the total novice could spend five minutes go to any audio forum and hear the debate on cables then realize he needs more info to make his cable decision. we need to stop blaming "The Man" and blame ourselves if you dont research your purchase and just go by marketing you are at fault. that said i dont beleive a power cord would make a difference.
Jake