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I also prefer virtual centers when you can get away with them. You really only need a center channel when you have seats outside of the sweet spot of your main speakers. It anchors the dialog to the screen for those seats. Unfortunately, it sometimes (often?) requires extra work after calibration to make it blend naturally ... at least this has been my experience (I've only used Audyssey XT 32 so far for auto cal)

Thanks! I have wondered about doing away with center channel for the same reasons. I appreciate the clarification.

well actually i have QS8 for surrounds but I don't have front center. I prefer to do a virtual phantom center as i think it sounds much better. i just mentioned the LFR as i change the crossover points (or in this case made one) for running a sub for when I am in a HT mode. were I can just run the speakers full mode on my music listening mode

I should add that I’m not sure if this is only an eq adjustment or if it has some surround/speaker parameters associated with it. So it might not get you where you want to go. The post I was reading was suggesting it was the complete set but thinking about it …I’m kind of skeptical … if you look into it I’d like to know what you find out

Just read that with the Audyssey multiEQ-X app ….You can write what ever results you want over FLAT and REFERENCE options in your AVR. Requires a bit of sophistication but if true … it might get you what you’re looking for using your current setup. Note: I’d also suggest verifying that it works with your unit before purchasing it. Just a thought …

I'm starting to think that being an audiophile will ruin both your ears and your hips.

I've had much better luck since I went to straight Medicare. They replace the hip (twice too!) and Medicare pays. No tedious forms, or god forbid, phone calls.

Wish we had national health care (down here in the US of A). Keep trying to get reimbursed by our excellent private insurance plans which keep rejecting you for all kind of interesting reasons. A battle of who will wear down who first! Finally figured out how to fill out the form correctly, fax it to the right place with the right markings of which department it should go to, follow up to make sure the fax made it passed the round file and … many trys later I received a check … you know what that means don’t you … it’s time for them to change the forms, fax #, department, and get a bigger bin!

I just had to note that I am not currently dead. And if I may post something radical it's that I had 2 hip operations done in the past year and I love our healthcare, and leaning even further into the abyss...my home theatre has 2 SVS cylinder subs.

For myself, the final 5% of improvement came when I switched to 2-channel Dolby Digital up-mixing. The current consumer version is SOTA and surpasses the antiquated 6-Axis, Logic 7, and Pro Logic Iix. I can never go back to stereo listening.

DTS:X adds some unwanted equalization in my setup, but that could also be something to try.

Just for clarity too, I’m looking for improvements on what is already pretty good in my opinion. I think the large space really helps as the low frequencies have to room to be effective and dissipate naturally. When I added the second subwoofer things improved, smoother and more whole room encompassing, I’m hoping for more impact and subtlety. I think adding the second d sub made me rethink placement too which was an improvement.

Thanks for sharing! Paul is a really good storyteller. Great information. This is why I enjoy this “hobby” there’s always more to learn and improve and enjoy.

Being that my rooms, I think, would be considered large, I agree, not sure how much impact this tech would have. I’m considering adjusting the listening position relative to speaker placement more. I also haven’t tried the traditional subwoofer crawl yet either. I’ll have to give that a go and see where it puts the placement of my sub’s. Is there a 2 subwoofer crawl procedure? I’ll have to find out.

I'm not sure the room compensation programs of mass market AVR's will do much. I leave the Onkyo AccuEQ off; it makes a slightly audible difference, but not one favorably better or worse. But running the calibration program will enable basic bass management such as phase alignment at the microphone position. It doesn't turn off unless you enable direct/pure mode.

PSB's Paul Barton discussed room correction in recent podcast (time cued). Bigger rooms don't seem to benefit as much as smaller rooms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcqTK0rwEPI&t=1079s

Thanks for the reply. Yes those conditions and all still apply for 2 channel. Sounds amazing with straight 2.2 channel with my beefy Hafler amp and pre. I have an old pair of paradigm monitor 9 in that basement space now and m60ti are back upstairs in the big room. Sorry I forgot to mention the change in setup, y’all don’t live in my house, how would you know otherwise!! Ha.

But with the Yamaha AVR now in there with the monitor 9’s it’s not as good while watching movies. It’s not that it sucks at all in fact it’s pretty good but I can tell that it could be better.

I just downloaded the manual for the AVR. Wow. ALOT of menus and settings to go through to get the this unit setup properly. I havent tried anything yet but I think there’s likely a solution with in the AVR itself. There’s various DSP and other settings / filters that may be affecting it all. I will report back when I get time to dig into it. I will checkout the apps you suggested too.

Yes for the price of new mid-priced car you too can have something you didn’t know you needed till now …
Ok … I’ll admit … I want it but not enough to pay for it …
My next car, probably a low end Prius, would come in at under 30k usd which I don’t think would cover the cost of a 32 channel Trinnov let alone the subs.

On the bright side other room correction players are also making noises on this front …

I'm assuming these conditions from a previous post are still applicable?

https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/u...ow-my-speakers-sound-bad-help#Post447434

I still recommend the SubZone app in the Apple App Store or Google Play Store for $1. It's very limited in functionality but you get to trial a bunch of listening positions and sub locations to get a gist of what the room is doing at bass frequencies.

Things are dialed in today. But I played around with places i used to live in, and none of the ideal sub placement suggestions were decor friendly. Anecdotally, I swore off full range tower loudspeakers because I just couldn't tame the standing waves when placed for best soundstage or decor-friendliness. This was years before my first AVR and the miracle of internal electronic crossover settings, so you might have a different experience.

Hey All,

Check out this link to an interesting tech for bass / subwoofer management I found while searching for my own low tech bass management solutions. So far best placement seems to be 1/4 width of front wall for sub’s left and right.

https://www.ecoustics.com/news/trinnov-brings-perfect-home-theater/

Looks pretty interesting although expensive. Anyone here use bass management and can tell me where I might start to learn more reasonable cost tech to improve bass response. ?

I’ve built a super basic theatre 5.2 in my unfinished basement all from used market, all about 20 year old vintage. So I doubt any current tech will apply. Curious to see if any one has any good ideas. Thanks all. Cheers.

Got it … an audio guy with a known web site (just not to me) … so out of touch with the audio media … kind of like it that way

Well, technically he's the owner of the Sound Stage Network website and social media channels. He's been on a few of Axiom's YouTube channel uploads, sitting on a lakeside dock and shooting the breeze with Andrew Welker with the beer cans possibly out of camera shot.

He's looking for writers, and I thought about answering the call. Unfortunately, his site isn't the anti-BS publication that Audio Critic and Sound & Vision (Canada) were and that EAC and ASR haven't reached yet. I can only feign being a hardcore audiophile before I get bored and start following my actual and mutually exclusive passion, which is discovering good music.

Thanks so much, MMM! I think I will look into this as it seems the perfect answer. Do you use just LRF and sub for all of your ht and listening? Wonder if I could or should consider not using qs8s? With Audyssey on, I find the chatter and such in the sides to be irritating and distracting (mine is multi-xt version in Denon), so I deactivate it. I wonder if anyone else has thought to have rears instead of 90 degree sides for ht and music? Anyway, that Anthem looks great!. I looked and saw a few not great reviews for one Anthem product on Crutchfield, but assume those to be an anomaly. Would I be safe buying a used one of your model, do you think? Anyway, thanks so much for this! It surely seems the perfect answer!

Ahhh, Didn’t get the relevance of this when you posted it … he’s an axiom guy!

the Anthem processors do that. I have an AVM60 and you can setup different configurations for inputs and speaker setups for them. So I can have CD setup to use input 1 (RCA) and use my LRF1100 set to full range with the Sub turned off. Where if I want FireTV then it will use the hdmi1 input with 7.2 setup. Put the LFR1100 to cross over at 80hz. have the Subs setup.

its rather a good feature.

That is a great story! I spent a few hours talking to Doug over the last 2 Axiom anniversary parties. He really is a good guy.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/th...-they-re-still-happily-in-love-1.6855095

Thanks! I will scour the menu. This unit is from 2010 and uses audessey multi xt - may be long in the tooth by now, but I am going to check into this. I appreciate the input.