And it is a good point Micah. Just looking at Emotiva, for about $1500 you could soon get a 5.1 setup with 200 (real???) w/c. Assuming all the other bells and whistles were the same - I know, they aren't - that set up would be "better" than a $2000 Denon 480?. In the past, I don't think you had near as much real competition between the classes. Now, separates are starting to force their way into the discussion of sub $5000 (and $4K, and $3K) units. Good news for all of us, even if I/we stay with the AVR forever. Competition helps consumers.

Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire