 M100s?
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So the latest version of the 100's arrived today... got to go back to listening.... will post opinion tomorrow.
Last edited by Rebulx; 09/29/20 04:42 AM.
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Re: M100s?
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Re: M100s?
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Right on!!!!! Congrats!!!! Looking forward to hearing your initial impressions. The ADA-1000 arrive too?
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Re: M100s?
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These new M100s push my Yamaha RX-A860 to the limit, actually it doesn't know what to do, one channel is 10db higher than the other. It can't handle it. I took one M100 out of the box and plugged it in and was shocked at the sound. It fills the room. I am impressed. I've been enjoying them. I'm having to figure out a better way to fit them in the room and which amp to go with. I now understand when people say these three little 6" drivers don't need a sub. It's shocking how much bass they put out. The mid range and lower end hits you in the chest. The negative, which people search for but generally don't find, luckily Axiom has the balls to have an open forum. My ears are used to the brightness of the old tweeters. I'm sure the new ones will please the masses but they play lower than the old ones. When I turned on my old VP150 center channel it filled the gap quite well, but that is needing to be replaced as the off axis performance is not what it should be. So I have to find a 10 year old axiom center channel, hopefully with a woofer/tweeter/woofer. Needless to say the M100 is the best speaker thats ever been in my house. Also, any ideas on how I can better fit these guys in the room would be very welcome. I have a set of outriggers to fasten them down, but these guys are very heavy. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/ZBcpYQcZ/IMG-3955.jpg)
Last edited by Rebulx; 10/01/20 03:03 AM.
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Re: M100s?
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Your Yammy is fine unless you're pegging it or it's damaged. The ADA will fix that.
The v4 tweeters are boss! I wonder if you are pushing the Yammy into distortion.
You need a VP160v4.
You can never achieve the full potential of the M100s in that room. Not even close. This is why I suggested the M2 for you. What's the point of cramming them into that space?
The best you can do is rotate that room 90 degrees. Problem is, the bass from those sphincters will blow out your new windows. You will need EQ.
My heart truly aches for you because you are now discovering what audio is but you will never reach your destination unless you raze your place to the ground and start over.
Last edited by Mojo; 10/01/20 03:30 AM.
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Re: M100s?
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Hey Rebulx, those m100s are definitely dominating that room! It’s neat you get to compare the different tweeters.
What does the rest of the room look like? Any way to do a wide shot or draw a basic schematic for the room?
Also, I’m assuming the white speakers m5 and others are a home theatre in another room in the house?
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Re: M100s?
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Yes your are absolutely correct Mojo! I do think something is off on the Yamaha, as I hooked up the old M50s and got the same 10 dd ++ reduction in sound.
Kodiak, I have pics in another thread. I'll see if I can repost here.
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Re: M100s?
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Rebulx, can you just temporarily move your left M100 to the right side of your fireplace? I know the window is there but just temporarily. Then just listen. You may never put it back. 
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Re: M100s?
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why not put the tv where the painting\poster is and flank it with the speakers as wide as you can go... then put the couch where the glass doors are
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Re: M100s?
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We went down that path and discovered his She-Hulk wife would thigh-choke him. We also agreed that might be kinda fun!
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That’s too bad. It would be a good orientation for all the variables of the setup.
It would be worth it to just try it as an experiment. And if it works or doesn’t then at least you’d know. The curiosity would be killing me.
You could have multiple positions that work for different scenarios. ( Speakers not thigh wrestling )
I’ve got 3 different setups / positioning for mine. ( Again, speakers not thigh wrestling. ) But I’m only dealing with 2 channel.
Last edited by Kodiak; 10/08/20 03:28 AM.
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Re: M100s?
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Yeah...that's exactly my illness. When I put speakers in a room, I throw everything out first, and then set them up in multiple ways and listen.
I do that at friends' places and it drives them nuts because once they hear good, they don't want to live with mediocre. Unfortunately they don't have the freedom I do and their wives aren't as much fun as Rebulx's.
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Re: M100s?
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I wouldn’t be able to NOT try it. I’m working around kids and a wife here but when the opportunity comes up I do a full setup for a listening session in the best position, which is also the most daily unliveable one.
I’ve got:
1. Station Keeping ( most livable and most aesthetic )
2. Holographic ( away from side walls more and moved out from back wall, can setup in 4-6 mins ). Dangerous for kids due to knocking over and scratching.
3. Ultimate. Takes 20-30 mins of setup lot’s of moving stuff but outs setup on my wider width wall and longer length wall. Exceptional. I’ve only done it a few times now bc it’s a major re working if all cables etc
Haven’t yet but I’d like to try my setup in a small room too. Just to see how it sounds.
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Re: M100s?
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Rebulx, you should try bringing the m100s off the rock dais and down into the carpet. That will at least move them away from back walls ( better for clarity and non muddy bass ) and get your tweeters closer to ear level. It could be why you don’t like the tweeters. If I toe out my ti tweet they are less bright and it improves the image and makes things less directional.
Bring them down lower , a touch wider , with very gentle toe in. Don’t be shy to use the tone control either with the treble. Just a little bit of treble. It’s not heresy to use the tone knobs or adjusters.
Last edited by Kodiak; 10/08/20 04:16 AM.
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Re: M100s?
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I actually was thinking about moving the TV above the fire place, that will most likely happen very soon, but i'm enjoying these M100s where they are now. I love these speakers!
Listener, I can't sacrifice the view, as the glass doors over look the water and turning the couch around would put our backs to the water. Yes, that makes the most acoustic sense though, but the the wife would never oblige.
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I actually was thinking about moving the TV above the fire place, that will most likely happen very soon, but i'm enjoying these M100s where they are now. I love these speakers!
Listener, I can't sacrifice the view, as the glass doors over look the water and turning the couch around would put our backs to the water. Yes, that makes the most acoustic sense though, but the the wife would never oblige. Water view is hard to beat. I noticed you're from Florida. Where in Florida do you reside? I'm thinking of bringing my family for a six to ten week getaway there this winter since we are working remotely anyways and kids have the option to remote learn. I usually go to Fort Lauderdale, but this year plan on visiting the gulf side. Probably around Sarasota and Fort Myers.
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Rebulx, favourite tune so far you’ve played on the m100?
How’s things sounding at different volumes?
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Re: M100s?
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great question Kodiak... I would have to say "The Good The Bad and The ugly" on youtube... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enuOArEfqGothats my favorite, but man i've heard some incredible lows from these speakers. Tonight I switched to two channel and had to walk around my listening space to make the other subs were not playing as it went so deep. I just could not believe these cabinets could handle such lows! You need M100s, DO NOT COMPROMISE! I had the M80 on walls and what a difference, it's like JV vs NFL. I'm really looking for new stuff to listen to as most of what i've found on the forums is just drum kicks, which are fun for about 2 minutes, lol
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I'm excited to report that I have a bad ass amp coming over this weekend Kodiak so I should have a more comprehensive over view of these M100s next week., as my puny receiver has not down the greatest job when going loud, but still the 100's shine.
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That is a masterpiece!!!!! I love it!!!! I’ve got all the spaghetti westerns on DVD.
Totally agenious idea to re create that with a full orchestra!!!
Stoked to hear your Initial review with the new amp. You get an ADA? Or an Emotiva? ( did you post that somewhere? )
Glad you’re enjoying them. !!! That’s great that you thought subs were still playing but it was the m100.
A new amp is gonna make those m100s into a whole other beast.
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Re: M100s?
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You see, in this world there's two kinds of people. Those with Axioms, and those without.
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Re: M100s?
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I’d love to do a blind a/b/c/d test in Dwight. That would be really fun. It would be interesting to have some big $$$ speakers in the line up too and see what happens and let the chips fall where they may.
I agree mojo. There are those that have axioms and those that don’t. I have no doubt there are people that don’t like the axiom house sound but I’m a believer. Looking forward to hearing more axioms in the future.
Edit: I’d like to hear some klipsch heritage speakers too but in my living room. Not at a shop or big box store. ( I’ve heard a few like that. So so. ).
Edit 2: Why else would I be up chatting on the axiom forum!.
Last edited by Kodiak; 10/09/20 04:51 AM.
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Re: M100s?
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I've had the opportunity to listen to high end B&W, martin login, def tec, Elac, KEF, and a few others in a carefully setup listening room. I'm happy to say nothing compared to the 100's in my terrible listening room, except for one pair of speakers, the B&W 800 diamond series... those were the best, unfortunately for me, they cost 15k per speaker.
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Wow. That’s high praise Rebulx. 15k per tower for the diamonds eh? That’s a lot of cash.
The M100 s sounds like a true flagship speaker.
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So 15$x2= $30k for diamonds. Just speakers.
Well $30k with AXIOM gets you ACTIVE LFR 1100 with ALL the goodies. Both ADA 1500 amps , DSP x2 , XLR cables, EP 800x2 and of course the LFR 1100 towers. There’s probably still room in that $30 k for a pair of ep600 as well.
I’m gonna add that to my wish list. Maybe it’ll pop up on the refurb store. Ha ha.
Edit: don’t forget the custom finish of your choosing.
Last edited by Kodiak; 10/09/20 04:07 PM.
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Re: M100s?
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The 800s might sound great but the design is a turn off for me. I prefer more traditional designs.
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Re: M100s?
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The 800s might sound great but the design is a turn off for me. I prefer more traditional designs. Totally agree. I don’t like when speakers look like AI or robots. The KEF Blade comes to mind or the Nautilus Series. Hideous. I actually really like the axiom look or just good ole boxes with strong build non resonant build.
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Re: M100s?
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Hmmm...what about the design turns you off? I am just curious.
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I was purely commenting on the aesthetics of it. I don’t know anything of the design or internals.
I assumed that’s what Canes was talking about. Maybe not.
I’m just old fashioned I guess. I like simple and clean look and wood grain.
I really like the look of the Klipsch Heritage line in wood grain. I wanna try horns one day too.
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Re: M100s?
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It's more contemporary and the tweeter looks like a microphone sitting on top.
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Re: M100s?
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And I was referring to the B&W 800 diamond speakers not the Axiom 800 subwoofer.
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Re: M100s?
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And I was referring to the B&W 800 diamond speakers not the Axiom 800 subwoofer. Yeah that’s what I thought. I also dislike the “ microphone “ tweeter. The aesthetic just looks like it’s trying too hard.
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Re: M100s?
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B&W fans love that super tweeter. You can even buy add on for normal speakers just put on top. Supposedly brings highs to a whole new level.
Possibly to much if treble sensitive, or younger people. I can only go a couple hours with extreme highs before fatigue sets in. Though I think they look pretty cool.
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Gotcha. I thought you were referring to the 800 monolith. Lol. The super tweeter is at another level. Because it's mounted higher up. The super tweeter looks like a turdy cream horn. The Axioms...well...they look like what they are. Electrodynamic loudspeakers.
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Re: M100s?
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the B&W 800 diamond series You're bringing back the memories ... Back in the early 90's the B&W 802 (matrix series... square with beveled corners) was on the top of my list. I seriously contemplated spending the multi grand price tag (can't remember the number, want to say 5k but it might have been lower) but in the end found something which to my ear sounded somewhat similar for a bit more than a grand (a demo'ed DCM TF600s? combined with duel mirage subs). Maybe if I compared the setups side by side I'd find big differences but that didn't really matter. I was happy with the sound and for the difference in money I didn't need to hear the 802 again. Actually, haven't heard anything from them since except for maybe a pair of 804s at a freinds house (which didn't cut it but I didn't tell him that). Martin Logans were on my short list around the 1999 time-frame but at the time there was no place to put them. I had just sold my house and moved into my girl-freinds condo. I remember them for their spaciousness and incredibly clear mids through highs. Unfortunately, marriage and kids came and the audio hobby was shelved since the new house also had nowhere to put a decent setup.
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Did you get rid of the girlfriend when you got married? Yeah, too bad for marriage and kids. LOL.
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Did you get rid of the girlfriend when you got married? Yeah, too bad for marriage and kids. LOL. Nope, married her. The kids really put a damper on things ... That's another reason the Martin Logans got nix'ed ... I kept having visions of paper clips being poked through the Logans membranes. Instead I took up photography as something to do when taking the kids to playgrounds and such but always miss'ed having great audio. It was one of the big reasons for the house renovation.
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My kids were different than your kids. I'd give them paper clips for poking stuff and they'd refuse. I'd give them knives to slash and cut and they'd say "No, thank you". I'd give them lighters to torch ignitables and they'd go read books. I just gave up on them, ya know?
House of the Rising Sone
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Re: M100s?
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Rebulx, which model from the B&W 800 series are you referring to?
Jeff
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If running subs should you cross over the m100s at 80hz?
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For your space, you need all the drivers you can get. The trick is going to be coordinating it all.
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For your space, you need all the drivers you can get. The trick is going to be coordinating it all. Are you talking about Canes space? Or Rebulx? How big is the space?
Last edited by Kodiak; 10/10/20 12:06 AM.
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Re: M100s?
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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We're really having communications problems on this board, aren't we? Canes's space. He has over 10,000 cu ft I think. I didn't give a good answer. Canes will have to experiment and keep some notes. Does it sound too boomy? Does it sound slow? Are the HP drivers distorting because he's sitting 15 to 20 ft away and has it cranked? Etc. I'd start off with no sub for a few days at least. Then add the 500 and start experimenting with the cross-over on the receiver and the 500. I've found on all my combos, it sounds best when the sub and receiver are crossed at the same frequency. I have my actives crossed at 40 on the DSP and the 500s set to 40 as well. But that boils down to preference I suppose based on room dynamics.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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I’m sitting at almost 12k cubic feet. It’ll definitely be an experiment. Starting small 5.1 and building up. Starting with my avr and then adding a 1500 5 channel. After that I’ll start adding more subs and speakers until I’m completely immersed in sound.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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I don’t wax rhapsodic as well as Mojo.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
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aficionado
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I’m sitting at almost 12k cubic feet. It’ll definitely be an experiment. Starting small 5.1 and building up. Starting with my avr and then adding a 1500 5 channel. After that I’ll start adding more subs and speakers until I’m completely immersed in sound. Wow. That’s a big space. Is the volume multiplied by mostly floor space or is it a high vaulted ceiling I’m guessing that is giving the large volume? Definitely an experiment for sure to pressurize that volume. That will be a fun build. Cool.
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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It’s an open basement with 9 foot ceilings but the floor layout is 52x25 but we are only using about half for the theater portion.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Rebulx, which model from the B&W 800 series are you referring to?
Jeff The 804's were = to my M100s (minus the tweeters) but the 800D3's for 30k were the best for me on the B&W line. Seriously though it was 30k!!!
Last edited by Rebulx; 10/10/20 03:44 AM.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Got he Emotiva 5 channel amp tonight from a friend... it powered down twice when turning up the volume, not sure what thats about, but it's working now. listening... damn these 100s go loud! poor neighbors. I may get a citation tonight for the local sound ordinance.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Put on a bass heavy tune and you'll fry that Emo.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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I don’t wax rhapsodic as well as Mojo. You will once you get the right boom in that room.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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This new avr has already made a big difference in sound and I only have fronts and center hooked up. Chomping at the bit for the new speakers to arrive so I can really see how good this room can get. I need to start building an audio cabinet to hold everything I’m planning on adding. Come on November.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Don't build a cabinet. It acts as a Helmholtz resonator. It also gathers dust. I had one and burned it in my firepit. I got a beauty of a live pine 6' shelf and put industrial legs on it. Amps underneath and receiver PS3, etc on top.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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OP
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Where do you set your center channel? You got a pic handy? I know i've seen it, but don't recall.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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I had a 150v2, moved to 160v4 but no centre needed with actives. I could always put the 160 back with a home-built shelf above the Onk but it's much more realistic with no centre. The actives...they're the real deal! ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/MvspHqxb/20201010-134532.jpg)
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Yeah, that looks like a perfect listening space for those actives!
Lots of speakers from many
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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I’m going to build an on wall shelf to hold the 180 and then something very similar to what you have Mojo to hold my avr, ps4, and eventually my amps.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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Fortunately my father in law is a woodworker. We already have some natural cherry boards we are going to use for the shelf and table top.
Last edited by CanesFanInVA; 10/11/20 02:42 AM.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2019
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the B&W 800 diamond series You're bringing back the memories ... Thanks for sharing that rrlev. It’s interesting to see your journey thru different setup and system.
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
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aficionado
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It’s an open basement with 9 foot ceilings but the floor layout is 52x25 but we are only using about half for the theater portion. Canes, I’m sure you’ve considered it but a wall in there would help immensely. Could be an opportunity to build a nice theatre. Diffusers/absorbers and soundproofing the walls a bit. I’m just blowing smoke here , I have no clue your situation or house setup either. But it sounds like you got room to enjoy!! Nice!
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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OP
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Didn't know Lowes had live edge, good share.
Kanes, go with the vp160.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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aficionado
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Kodiak, we could easily put up a wall but we would really like to keep it open for entertainment purposes based on how we will have the rest of the room laid out.
Is there a reason everyone keeps saying the 160 vs the 180?
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Many here may believe the unorthodox design of the 180 won't work across a wide width of seating positions. The 180v4 however is not like the 150v2 which did indeed suffer off-axis.
I've heard both in v4 and both sound very good. The only reason to go with a 180 is if you need more SPL. I loved my 160v4. With active LFRs, I don't need it.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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I can vouch for the off axis of the 150 so I should have a good comparison once the 180hp arrives.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11
devotee
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OP
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If you like the off axis of the 150 then you'll be happy with the 180.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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I can vouch for the off axis of the 150 so I should have a good comparison once the 180hp arrives. You can vouch what and which 150 version?
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
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It’s a v1 or v2. I think my father purchased it around 1999/2000. If you aren’t directly in front of the speaker the sound tapers off pretty significantly. I’m assuming that’s what you meant by off axis.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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I'm gonna have to go down and listen to the 150v4 ... haven't notice ...
But then again I haven't really listened to it off the couch.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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The 150 is smaller than the 180 so I’m hoping the 180 will have a little wider axis. If not, I can always send back for the 160 after the test drive.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
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Rich, I don't know about the 150v4. I'd bet Andrew and Ian worked that one over and it's not like the 150v2. Note the 150 went the way of the M22 and M50.
Last edited by Mojo; 10/12/20 01:46 AM.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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If I say anything ignorant please forgive me. I’m still learning.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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1 member likes this:
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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The 150 is smaller than the 180 so I’m hoping the 180 will have a little wider axis. If not, I can always send back for the 160 after the test drive. A wider center does not make for wider off-axis performance necessarily. The 160v4 is plenty wide. I've sat 60 degrees off-axis with no problem.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
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Description on the 180 talks about being tested on and off axis so I guess I’ll find out in a month. Can also see if Rich notices anything on his 150v4. Maybe they fixed some of those issues.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2019
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Kodiak, we could easily put up a wall but we would really like to keep it open for entertainment purposes based on how we will have the rest of the room laid out Canes, I totally understand wanting to keep it open. Could you hang a really nice heavy curtain where a wall would go? You could make it really classy looking. Then about and close based on need. Would a heavy curtain be enough to reduce the volume the woofers would need to pressurize? I honestly don’t know ?but I’m sure the crew here will comment. It’s just a thought...... might be a dumb idea I’m not sure. But it works for reflections and diffraction ( right terminology?) in my living room giant glass window when I draw closed the heavy drapes. Edit: sorry to interject in the Center channel chat. Just a lowly 2 channel guy here. ( smirk. ).
Last edited by Kodiak; 10/12/20 01:55 AM.
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Nope a curtain won't help unless it's 14 feet thick. No kidding. To stop a 20Hz acoustic wave, you need at least a quarter wavelength of absorption. A 20Hz acoustic wave is about 55 feet long. A quarter of that is 14 feet.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
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aficionado
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Ha ha ha ha!!! That’s hilarious!! Ok. Bad idea. I’m smiling at myself now. It’s logical when you put it that way Mojo.
Well Canes , I guess you’ll need to just buy a lot of sub woofers. Or heavy furniture and large fish tanks.......a la Scarface.
So what are my curtains actually doing when I close them? ( bc it sounds a lot better when I do ). Sorry to hip check the chat here.....
Last edited by Kodiak; 10/12/20 02:05 AM.
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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Description on the 180 talks about being tested on and off axis so I guess I’ll find out in a month. Can also see if Rich notices anything on his 150v4. Maybe they fixed some of those issues. No way they'd let the 150v4 be the same performance as the cursed 150v2.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Well Canes , I guess you’ll need to just buy a lot of sub woofers. Or heavy furniture and large fish tanks.......a la Scarface. That's what I said a week ago. So what are my curtains actually doing when I close them? ( bc it sounds a lot better when I do ). Sorry to hip check the chat here..... They are mostly diffusing and partly absorbing the image-destroying highs that bounce around your room and confuse your ears-brain. Reflect! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM
Last edited by Mojo; 10/12/20 02:15 AM.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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OP
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Thats a great video Mojo... actually it's now my favorite. Kodiak, i've watched it at least three times now. As boring as some may find it, it's very interesting, worth the watch.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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That’s my plan. Just keep adding speakers and amps until it sounds good.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2019
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Thats a great video Mojo... actually it's now my favorite. Kodiak, i've watched it at least three times now. As boring as some may find it, it's very interesting, worth the watch. Will do. I like learning stuff. Much more into learning and discovery now then when I was in school. School.... eye roll. Imagine if there was a speaker building class? Or a design your own subwoofer project!! Now that would’ve been real learning. But I digress....
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
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aficionado
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aficionado
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That’s my plan. Just keep adding speakers and amps until it sounds good. Well at least it will fun to keep buying new toys and set that play up proper!!! Fun. !!
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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OP
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I'm right there with you Kodiak, that class would rock! count me in!!!
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40
aficionado
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aficionado
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Even cross over design would’ve been cool. Or a HAM radio club. Now we’re talking. My schooled sucked big time.
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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devotee
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OP
devotee
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I don't think anyone really liked their school... it's a thing... curious what year did you graduate HS? Ham radio?
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Thats a great video Mojo... actually it's now my favorite. Lol! Nerd!
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Even cross over design would’ve been cool. Or a HAM radio club. Now we’re talking. My schooled sucked big time. I learned cross-over design. And amp design. I rock!
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
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No way they'd let the 150v4 be the same performance as the cursed 150v2. Just listened to the 150 v4 watching Schitt's Creek... it's fine. As one would expect you lose the high end as you get out of the dispersion cone of the tweeters but even at 60 degrees off axis it's not bad.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
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aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40 |
Even cross over design would’ve been cool. Or a HAM radio club. Now we’re talking. My schooled sucked big time. I learned cross-over design. And amp design. I rock! Show off.
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40 |
I don't think anyone really liked their school... it's a thing... curious what year did you graduate HS? Ham radio? Yeah man. Ham radio. It’s the better than Spotify. It’s got ALL the bands. Muh ha haha. See what I did there...,,,
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11 |
takes one to know one. ;-)
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40 |
Ummmmm , we are all on an audio hi fi forum. There’s no saving any cool factor now. Nerds. The lot of us. It doesn’t matter though because,....... when your speakers start to image and disappear into the ether there’s nothing better.
Just saying. ( that’s what the cool kids these days say. ).
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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1 member likes this:
Rebulx |
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
I hate fedex. They actually have had my sub at the sort facility here in town since Friday but they will hold it until the delivery day on Wednesday.
Last edited by CanesFanInVA; 10/12/20 10:53 AM.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
They may be listening to it. I hope they don't play whack-a-sub with it when they've had enough of it.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
I had another package they did that with. Why would you not go ahead and deliver it? More people would be likely to ship with you if packages occasionally came earlier than expected. The FedEx guy actually told me they do that on purpose. If you don't pay for faster shipping they will not deliver early. Very poor business model.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101 |
I've had FedEx tell me that there was a package coming that I had to be present to sign for. Basically they have you waiting all day with a line like "delivery by 8pm".
Anyway, the FedEx truck pulls up. I open the door and stand there for two minutes as nothing happens. Then the truck pull away ... a minute later I get an exception text ... package not delivered because customer was not home.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
The driver obviously saw or felt something that scared him/her. Are you a scary mother, Rich?
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
They actually brought it although the tracking never said out for delivery. That is definitely not going to fit in my car. Can't wait to see how big the boxes for the m100s are.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,037 Likes: 69
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,037 Likes: 69 |
Is your front wall the 25’ wall beside the storage room?
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
The boxes are a bit difficult to commandeer unless you're a beefy, brawny boy like I am. I have however shared with everyone my preferred method of man-handling the floor-standers once they are out of their boxes. It is the famed "two-sphinctered" grip. If right-handed, gently place two fingers of the left hand in the front sphincter and two fingers of the right hand in the rear sphincter. If your hands are of the more genteel nature, three fingers may better secure said sphincters. For teensy tiny hands, fist the sphincters.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
@Trevor Yes, the front wall is the 25' wall on the storage end. Sorry, I just saw that was meant for Rebulx
@Mojo I normally pick up tower speakers like I'm preparing for a caber toss
Last edited by CanesFanInVA; 10/12/20 08:17 PM.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Add in the toss and you are well-qualified to be a FedEx employee.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101 |
The driver obviously saw or felt something that scared him/her. Are you a scary mother, Rich? No, I'm not scary ... and the neighborhood is as safe as it gets. I figured that someone forgot to put it on the truck or more likely the driver gave up looking for it. I was pissed mainly because I there obviously waiting and the driver said I wasn't. I sent the CEO an email about honesty ... someone must have read it as the package was delivered the next morning and it was a Sunday. This has happened more than once ... it's why I opened the door and stood there. BTW: if your back seats go down you can move the M100's in most cars ... the problem comes in when you get a few subs with them.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
The problem with my car is the subwoofers in my trunk would only allow me to move one at a time.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Ummmmm , we are all on an audio hi fi forum. There’s no saving any cool factor now. Nerds. The lot of us. It doesn’t matter though because,....... when your speakers start to image and disappear into the ether there’s nothing better. The late Siegfrid Linkwitz said it best and actives do the best job with rendering the illusion he describes: "The magic occurs when the loudspeakers seemingly disappear from the sound scene, to the point where one is inclined to ask: what are these two contraptions in front of me doing? All that is perceived is a phantom scene. A scene, which is not hard bounded by loudspeakers, softly windowed and extends behind and above the speakers. While there is a sweet spot, namely the apex of an equilateral triangle, the scene does not collapse into the nearest speaker upon moving to one side, but stays between the speakers with a perspective similar to what one would hear at a concert sitting to the side. The magic is difficult to describe in pictures or words but is recognized within 30 seconds when heard. It usually elicits a big smile or even laughter from the listener. Naive listeners, audiophiles and professionals alike recognize the naturalness of presentation. On many recordings it is 3D in front of the listener and resembles a concert experience. When watching movies on a screen between the speakers, on-screen dialogue and sounds are clearly separated from those off-screen. Center and side speakers are not missed as the two speakers alone render a smooth continuum."
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Canes, you will be missing a lot without an 800. Maybe a 600. I don't know about the 600 because I don't have one. But I have two 500s up front and that last 10Hz the 500s can't do is real important.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11 |
I've been told that people can't hear below 20hz, what really matters is the sound above 20hz. having an EP600 I can say that mid range bass is sweet and very enjoyable. I enjoy it. You can find 16" woofers that perform much lower, but only the family dog will appreciate it.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11 |
I've had FedEx tell me that there was a package coming that I had to be present to sign for. Basically they have you waiting all day with a line like "delivery by 8pm".
Anyway, the FedEx truck pulls up. I open the door and stand there for two minutes as nothing happens. Then the truck pull away ... a minute later I get an exception text ... package not delivered because customer was not home. Rlez, you've just described my worst nightmare. That is bat shit crazy! That would make for such a shity night. You have my sympathy. I hope the shipping gods shine down on you better in the future!
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
I'm almost certain I will end up with several subs in that room. Maybe two 800s up front and two 500s in the back.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Now you're talkin'. You may want to put the 800s in the back. They are monoliths so they may interfere with the acoustic radiation off the speakers.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
I actually have some natural nooks in the room that the 800s might sit in perfectly. Would it be best to daisy chain the 800s on one .1 channel and the 500s on the other .1? I will run the 500s off of the dsp when I upgrade to the actives
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
I suppose you can experiment with them in nooks but they may go BOOM!
Yup, you can do that. I don't know if you have two separate .1 channels or 1 channel that is paralleled. You ought to check with Axiom for how many sealed subs you can run off of a single sub out. It depends on their input impedance and also on how much load (current) your .1 output is rated for. Check the specs for the .1 output.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
My avr has two .1 channels so I think I would run a splitter off each of those to run 4 subs.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Or run to one sub and chain to another.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Finally test driving the 500.... I think I'm going to need to upgrade to the 600s up front. I'm going to continue tweaking the settings and move the sub around the room some to see if it makes some sound improvements. Unfortunately I will probably have to decide on the 500 before the 180 and m100s arrive. Multiple subs will definitely be needed in my room.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Canes, the best place for that 500 in your room may well be 1/3 or 2/3 of the way down your side-wall relative to the front left corner. It may sound best if it's moved a foot or so away from the wall.
The easiest way to locate the correct position is to place the sub where your main listening position is. Play a tune with bass. Then crawl along your side-wall and locate the positions where the smoothest bass is happening. Put the sub in any of those positions.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Should towers be set to small and crossed over at 40hz or 80hz when running a sub? Seems to be a lot of conflicting info out there about whether towers should be run large or small.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
It very much depends on room acoustics, your fronts and subs and personal preference. Try 40, 60 and 80 and see what you prefer. Also try setting the sub's cross-over as well. I find setting my sealed subs to the same cross-over frequency as the AVR's cross-over works best for me in my room.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Thanks, Mojo. I certainly appreciate your advice.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
You're welcome. Not sure if you know what to look for in bass performance. Musical bass ought to be tight, articulate, textured, space-filling and transparent. My cheap subs can't do this song justice. With my sealed subs, I hear no unexpected note overhang/resonance, deep, sharp yet smooth textures from string twangs and drum smacks and experience soul-filling emotion. https://open.spotify.com/track/796kuTmB7Pz3YuYbChu58s?si=PSnGjUPJRxK4sei2MKtgkA
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
That's how I like my bass to sound. I'm not into boomy bass. It should be tight and exact and clean. I'm much more adept to subs when it comes to music than I am at movies.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Fortunately, with the Axiom sealed subs - which are very linear - once you tune them using music, they are set for movies. I find the Axiom sealed subs are really easy to integrate into a system.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101 |
Should towers be set to small and crossed over at 40hz or 80hz when running a sub? Seems to be a lot of conflicting info out there about whether towers should be run large or small. The Large/small/crossover settings are kind of confusing. Let's first cover/review what these parameters mean (at least how I understand them ... please correct me if I have something wrong): LARGE/SMALL The large/small setting tells the receiver or processor if you want to send the speaker a full range signal (i.e. ignore the crossover setting) or If you want to redirect frequencies lower then the set crossover frequency for that speaker to the sub-out. So, Large = full range, Small = anything below the crossover frequency is not played on the speaker but sent to the sub. Note: If your speakers are all set to large the sub-out may not send anything unless your playing a movie with an LFE channel (Low Frequency Effects channel) SUB MODE There is another parameter my 8805 calls Subwoofer mode. I can set this to either LFE or LFE+Main. LFE works exactly as stated above: the sub will play the LFE channel and any low-end content redirected from speakers which are set to small. The Large speakers handle their own low-end. In LFE+Main mode the subs will in addition be sent the low-end content of the Large speakers. ie. the frequencies below the set crossover of a large speaker will be sent to both the speaker and the sub. OR stated another way, the sub gets the low frequency content from all the speakers. (large speakers still play the full-range). So, after all that we can talk about why you might want to set a speaker to large or small. Obviously, if you have a small speaker which doesn't go low you want to set it to small and let the sub handle the frequencies it can't. 80Hz is a good choice because below that it's hard to localize where a sound is coming from and most small speakers can play that low. But what if you didn't have a sub? In that case you might consider setting even a small speaker to large so the full frequency range gets sent to it. (Most receivers will do this automatically) If you have floor standing speakers which can go fairly low ... say 30 Hz but you have a sub which can go even lower you might want to set that speaker to small with a fairly low crossover ... like 40Hz. Alternately you could set your subMode to LFE+main and play both (adjusting the sub knob for a smooth transition). The receiver also has a LPF (low pass filter) setting which you can set on the LFE. Another reason you might set tower speakers to small is because you're trying to drive them with a marginal receiver. By off loading everything below 80Hz (just to pick a number) to the sub you might get a better cleaner performance and be able to crank it (where the receiver alone would run out of juice). I'm sure there are other examples out there but each setup is unique and it's best if you understand these parameters to make the best trade-off for your situation.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
The equivalent to LFE+Main on my Onk is Double Bass. LFE+Main is a Denon/Marantz/Integra term.
If you set some small speakers to large, and then play a bit louder than normal, you can ignite them or destroy their spiders. That's what happened to my Dreamcatchers. Unlike Axioms, some speakers are not designed to gracefully exceed their recommended maximums.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101 |
There's a reason that Max limits are given ... I guarantee you that a Giga-watt applied to any axiom will not end well ... Pretty sure it would void the warrantee too...
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
1 GW, applied to active LFR1100 for 200 nsec would be just fine. Do the math. Damn, Ian built speakers that can take a Giga Watt.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101 |
Rather drink my whiskey and ginger and let you do the math
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101 |
If you set some small speakers to large, and then play a bit louder than normal, you can ignite them or destroy their spiders. That's what happened to my Dreamcatchers. Now you know why they call them Dreamcatchers ...
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Yup! They are rated "20-80W recommended amplification" but they can only take 30W peaks before they dynamically compress. And don't you dare put less than 40Hz into them because they go THWAAAPSNAAAP.
The M2v4, which sounds far better in all respects, and costs less today than Dreamcatchers did in 2010, can take 240W peaks from my Pioneer which I love so much but according to JohnK I am not supposed to, and not even blink. The M2v4 with a couple of sealed subs is all most audio lovers need but they'll never know it because bigger is supposedly always better.
Keep living the good life over there. Have a whiskey and ginger for me. I can't afford it because I just bought 4 subs and still have two more to go.
Last edited by Mojo; 10/15/20 12:15 AM.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,460 Likes: 6
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,460 Likes: 6 |
Dreamcatchers are the lower end of the line. The Mani 2's I had were one of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard. I drove them with VBA, Robertson and another amp I cannot recall - all well over 200 watts - with any problems.
Damn I miss those speakers!
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
This is why they sounded so good. Apparently very low and linear extension and high dynamic capability to boot. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/4mJ1wnF9/Screenshot-20201014-201329-Opera.jpg)
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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I can tell you it was a major difference in the clarity on the Studio 80s. Set to small and the sub back to lfe-main and increase the x-over on the sub to 100. Still need more subs to fill out the room. Would a 600 be noticeably different than the 500?
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Yup! They are rated "20-80W recommended amplification" but they can only take 30W peaks before they dynamically compress. And don't you dare put less than 40Hz into them because they go THWAAAPSNAAAP. Can't imagine a speaker which would blow because you drove it at less then 40Hz ... now if you told me it blew because the amp was in clip ...
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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At lower than 40Hz, the coil former was smacking into the backplate. It didn't blow. Eventually though I got tired of not being able to listen to them loud enough so I cooked them. Now the coil scrapes inside its gap.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Canes, the 600 goes about 10Hz lower than the 500. I won't have mine for another month. But its performance would be somewhat equal to my 800. It just can't go as loud. That 10Hz doesn't sound like much but it makes a tactile difference and renders the bass more transparent and room-filling.
Have you tried the linear/boost switch yet?
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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aficionado
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Yes I’ve tried the boost switch. I’m still messing with the avr settings to try to get everything dialed in.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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I can tell you it was a major difference in the clarity on the Studio 80s. Set to small and the sub back to lfe-main and increase the x-over on the sub to 100. Still need more subs to fill out the room. Would a 600 be noticeably different than the 500? The Studio 80 sounds clearer because the bottom driver is (mostly) freed from trying to reproduce frequencies below the x-over. The Studio 80s will be relegated to firewood once you get the M100s.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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aficionado
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Actually they will become my dad's problem again. I can't wait for him to get back to town so he can hear my new set up. He's a fan of the Axioms and all he has is the 150 and QS8s.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
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ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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Your dad, a man of means, deserves to treat his ears-brain well.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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I'm sure he will once he hears my set up and even more so once I upgrade to actives.
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M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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Well yeah...you've got to one-up dad. BTW, look at you. You're already starting to understand better sound to the point where you want to show it off!
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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aficionado
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It'll be another step up just getting the ada 1500 and getting the speakers off of the avr amp.
LFR1100
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EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Hmmmm...I dunno. Playing M100s off my Onk vs ADA-1000 or ADA-1500 didn't make any difference at normal listening levels. That's at 14 feet away in a 4200 cu ft room. 60% or more of the energy in music is below 100Hz or so. If the subs are doing all that work, the AVR doesn't have to.
I'll tell you what made a big difference for me moving from M80/150/QS8/600 v2 to passive v4:
1. Sealed Axiom subs. Just the 800 alone cinched it. It cleaned up the mess the 600v2 was spraying all over my room.
2. M5 or M100. Even M2s are much better than M80v2. Soundstage, imaging, mid-bass, mids, highs,...everything!
3. 160
4. QS10
The actives upped the emotional satisfaction by giving me an illusion of room boundary/soundstage expansion. They also offer higher image resolution and improved placement of those images on the stage. Both of these are major improvements over the passive system described above.
Now I need to work on erasing the boundaries through proper diffusion. That though is just gravy and me being particularly picky.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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aficionado
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Well the amp would come last. Next up is the QS10s and that will at least complete my 5.1 system and give me my base starting point.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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You won't need an amp with the avr-x6500h. Use the money saved from an amp to buy subs. Buy amps when you go actives.
If you are planning to go actives, forget about any room treatment.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
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aficionado
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I had to get the avr-x6700h which is pretty much the same just the 2020 model. I think it'll be qs10s next then I'll start adding additional subs. I'm really speaking in hypotheticals until the 180 and 100s show up then I'll know what my room sounds like. I hope I'll like the 180 as much as I think I will. I'd hate to have to swap it out for the 160 and have to wait another month.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Oct 2014
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aficionado
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aficionado
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The 180 should be fine as it's the bigger brother of the 160.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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Can you please hurry up and get this done because the anticipation is killing all of us.  Seriously though, are you keeping real good notes of your experience? So you can then share with all of us? We live vicariously through the audio adventures of others.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
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You’ll have to talk to Ian about that. Just patiently waiting for my 21 days to be up. I pretty much make mental notes of everything I try and of course I now hang out on the forums to pick up suggestions and recommendations.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 779 Likes: 40
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2019
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Can you please hurry up and get this done because the anticipation is killing all of us. Seriously though, are you keeping real good notes of your experience? So you can then share with all of us? We live vicariously through the audio adventures of others. I second that motion!!! We want all the gorey nitty gritty details!!!
M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
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shareholder in the making
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You’ll have to talk to Ian about that. Just patiently waiting for my 21 days to be up. I pretty much make mental notes of everything I try and of course I now hang out on the forums to pick up suggestions and recommendations. The Axiom factory is jammed tight with orders. There ain't enough MDF trees on the planet to supply Ian's needs. Did you all know he has to make his own magnets? I'm not kidding. He built a machine that births magnets. Here it is: https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/pages/TomIanMagnetizer.jpg
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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Mojo, How do you know that their that busy?
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2009
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Did you all know he has to make his own magnets? I'm not kidding. Yeah, I saw that in one of their speaker build videos ... I assumed it had to do with it being easier to building the motor before it's magnetized ... not to mention safer. It could also be a cost savings, control over quality or ... all of the above ... it would be interesting answer to know.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Well, Rich...come on man! How many MDF trees have you seen lately? NONE! Because Axiom used them all up.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
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I really think it’s because Mojo keeps buying all of their stock. I mean he already has an 800 that has a nad tickler switch.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
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ADA1500.5
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1 member likes this:
Mojo |
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Ian knows what I like, Canes. Seriously though, Ian and his staff have got magic curves. They've finally sculpted them to addict anyone who listens to the v4. And now real wood veneer as a standard on top of the loyalty, 21 day ICW and trade-in programs. Prospects aren't dumb. They see the value. Now may be the best time to buy before Ian comes to his senses!
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
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Trying to build up my loyalty discount so I can really take advantage of these sales.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Canes, have you considered branching subs off your QS10s? Full range on all channels.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 101
connoisseur
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Trying to build up my loyalty discount so I can really take advantage of these sales. Well by the time you get maxed out you won’t need anything more.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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Untrue, Rich. Wait 'till you see what will be coming out. We'll all need them.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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Not to sound stupid, but what exactly do you mean branching subs off of the QS10s?
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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The QS10s will get you down to 50Hz or so, maybe even 40Hz. Modern surround formats carry signals down to 20Hz. The convention is to send whatever bass the speakers can't handle to the .1 subs. I've discovered however that bass from its own channel and the .1 subs handling just LFE, results in a more nuanced soundscape.
My current setup is 4.1. My fronts are full range because I have dual 500s off DSPs. To make my sides full range, I plan on situating a 500 below each QS10. A speaker cable will bring the QS10 (high level) signal into the 500. The 500 will replicate the information below 80Hz sent to the QS10. This way, I will have true 4.1.
There's more to this unconventional plan. In addition to the four 500s, I will have two 600s and an 800. The two 600s will be in the back. The 800 will be front and centre lying down. These three will handle purely the .1 LFE during movies.
But it gets better. During two-channel music, the two left 500s will handle the left channel bass. The two right 500s will handle right channel bass. The 600s and 800 could be put into what you call LFE+Main or Double Bass as it is known on my Onk.
So in summary, 7 subs to allow true 4.1 with the ability to use all subs for 2-channel.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
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I actually thought that's what you were referring to doing but wasn't 100% positive. I'll have to keep that in mind when I start new wiring in wall. Going to add wiring to expand to 11.2 or 5.2.4 atmos. I can add a few extra runs to account for high level inputs to side subs.
LFR1100
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2009
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connoisseur
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Joined: Sep 2009
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After that, knowing mojo, he’ll start stacking actives ... Think you’ve plateaued on the audio side of things ... Maybe It’s time to tip your hat to a bit of video. 150” screen perhaps
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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shareholder in the making
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Canes, you can also branch off your low level outs on your Denon. They may be less immune to noise though.
There's likely a lot of wisdom in Rich's advice. We'll see. I still need to upgrade my QS10s to actives.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Canes, Andrew said not to do high level off the QS10s. So low level is the way to go.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2002
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This is why they sounded so good. Apparently very low and linear extension and high dynamic capability to boot. Yes, nice response! For a bookshelf, the dynamics and frequency response was incredible. The owner/designer Vince was a charater and some of his design ideas were a bit out of the norm. These had dual woofers, one behind the other in the cabinet. I also recall models that had an unusual substance that was for dampening inside. I think there was a model that had both inside and outside fully veneered to ensure cabinet stability!
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
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Run everything off the .1 channels?
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EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
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shareholder in the making
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Run everything off the .1 channels? I was referring to feeding subs for side speakers off your Denon pre-amp outs. If you ever add amps, you can use RCA splitters. They are cheap and readily available. One side of the splitter can go to the amp and the other to the side sub.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2012
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I think you may want to update your display and receiver before you add more subs Mojo.
PJ time?
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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I think you may want to update your display and receiver before you add more subs Mojo.
PJ time? Yeah, Mojo! Do a laser projector and rub it in my face.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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That’s a clever idea. Can use the avr amp for heights or sides and use the side preout to feed the subs. Will the avr send the same signal through the speaker outputs and the preamp simultaneously?
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
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That’s a clever idea. Can use the avr amp for heights or sides and use the side preout to feed the subs. Will the avr send the same signal through the speaker outputs and the preamp simultaneously? Both my Onk and Pioneer steer simultaneous signals out of the speaker and pre-amp outputs. My Pioneer is two channel and has pre-outs. I feed the M2OW with the speaker outputs and my dual subs with its pre-outs.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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I think you may want to update your display and receiver before you add more subs Mojo.
PJ time? Yeah, Mojo! Do a laser projector and rub it in my face. Yeah, I hear you both. I am actually not as nuts about video as I am about audio. I would like to see my Onk blow up so I can get a receiver or pre/pro but I see no other receiver or pre/pro that I yearn for. The Onk is serving my 4.1 channel needs very well.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2012
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connoisseur
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Neither was I..... I thought.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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Goddammit!
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
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Wow. My M100s and VP180 just shipped 2 weeks earlier than expected. Outstanding.
Last edited by CanesFanInVA; 10/22/20 05:01 PM.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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I gave up my place in line for you 'cause I already have actives and 3 subs so I figured you needed those M100s and VP180 more than I needed 6 more subs.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
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Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Thanks. I appreciate that. Really anxious to get those hooked up and see how much different the room sounds. If they follow the same cadence as the sub I should have them on Monday.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Everything arrived this morning. Can't wait to hook them up. Now my wife is talking about making an actual theater area in the basement which if we use the area we are discussing it drops me down to only 3000 cubic feet.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
I thought you'd have 25x25x9 for the theatre. No? That would be over 5500 cu ft.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
We do have that area but now she wants to move everything to another section and soundproof and block everything off and use it like a small theater room. This area would be 15 x 23 x 9
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
The front wall would be 15 feet?
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
In that area we can make the front wall on either 15 foot wall or on one of the 23.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Most would set it up on the 15 foot wall which can result in nice depth if you follow Trevor's guidelines. But it limits the width of the soundstage. 15 feet is a lot of width though so you likely have nothing to worry about.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
We also have an area that will be walled off with a door that will make the room rectangular that we would use for our audio equipment so it would be hidden. I think we would need to make the main listening position around 10-12 feet to keep the 100s off the side walls and keep the correct distances for sound.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
A 12 foot width is OK but 10 feet is getting small. On the other hand, the 12 foot width is getting close to half the length and acoustically that's not great.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Would it be better to keep the mlp greater than half the length? I know there are some acoustical calculations but I haven't really gotten into that yet.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Start with this. Backs 8 feet off the front wall, 10 feet apart at the tweeter mid-points and sit 13 feet away from each speaker (13 feet diagonally).
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,037 Likes: 69
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,037 Likes: 69 |
15x23x9 is a fantastic size. You even have enough room for a AT false wall setup if you wish.
15 should be the front wall.
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Test driving the vp180 and it definitely does not have the off axis issues the 150 had. I stood up, sat down, walked from one side of the room to the other and with the exception of a very small drop off from the tweeters the 180 sounded linear no matter where I moved. Obviously the mlp had the highest clarity but I will probably be the only one who notices the slight sound difference because I was looking for it. The m100s will not fit into my car so I have to wait for the rain to clear out to get them home on the truck. I can't wait to hear all of these speakers running together and even more so after the break-in period.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 470 Likes: 11 |
You got M100s Cane? imho best speakers ever created. you and everyone else who hears them will be very pleased. What are you using to power them?
btw, went with the VP160 myself, hope to see it soon, also grabbed a new M2 and M3 for surrounds.
Lots of speakers from many
manufactures...mostly Axiom
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
The active LFR1100s are better. Except in my living room. There, the M2OWv4 and dual 125v4 shine.
The VP160v4 is excellent. Don't look back.
Rebulx, you really ought to get an EP125v4 for the workshop. I'm sure Ian can don some paint and slap his sexy ass on your sub if you ask him nicely.
House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 572 Likes: 24 |
Rebulx, yes I picked up a pair of the m100s. The 180 is huge. It's as wide as my current tv and I had to sit it on a coffee table temporarily until I get my audio shelves built. It was too tall to sit where I had the 150. Looking forward to getting the m100s home and hearing them hopefully this weekend.
LFR1100
VP180HP
EP600
M3 In Ceiling x 4
M5OW
M2 - Atmos rears
ADA1500.5
M3 Outdoor Speakers
ADA 1000.8
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Re: M100s?
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 109
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 109 |
Canes,
I would like to hear your thoughts. I have almost the same set up and room size. I have M100s drive by an ADA 1500 driving EP 180 and M100s. 4 QS10s driven by a 7 channel AdA 1250. 2 EP500. It over kill for my room size but who cares it sounds fantastic. What AMP do you have for the 100s?
RJ
M100 V4, VP180 V4,QS10s x4 V4 M2 V4 X2 EP500 V4 X 2,ADA 1500-3, ADA1250 - 7 N3
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