Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Speaker update Paradigm 800F vs Axiom M60 HP

Hi: Starting a new thread in right section

So I am now into the 5 days of comparison of these fine speakers & a winner is starting to emerge before I get to that here is a list of the artists I've listed to: Dire Straits,Billy Joel,Bruce Hornsby,Kenny G.,Tragically Hip,Sade,Amanda Marshall,Metallica,Bon Jovi,, more to come and open to any others that have music that will test speakers.

So with the above artists(many different types of songs) with no room correction used the 800F's have emerged as the winners as of right now they are airier at the top end,more detailed over all,sound stage is a bit wider,the Axiom's are better on the bottom end that is not a surprise...but they do not embarrass the 800's in this area.Have not tried movies yet as music is in my opinion more revealing.....next stage is to continue to try more types of music hence my comment above of any well recorded music too....on Friday will have time to calibrate speakers & then try some good action films with loud scenes and subtle one's too. The surprising part is other then bass response the 800F's are noticeably better in my room so far and to repeat even in the bass area the 800's are only slightly behind the M60's. So there it is more updates to follow!!Cheers.

It sounds like fun.

I suggest listening to news anchors or YouTube talking heads and see if the treble is lifted. You shouldn't be hearing treble air in their voices.

It'd be interesting to know how they fare during lower and higher volumes and which pair acoustically disappears better.

You blew them up, yeah?

StereoG,

Try this album.

https://open.spotify.com/album/02wrkK9VX7tCIkGbRXdO6v?si=ZdPaMb2cSCSCyWQwxxohTg

Track 1,2 and 8.

Track 1 good skin slapping at the start.

Track 2 nice guitar sounds and string texture

Track 8 bass and strong vocals , vocal softness.

She is danish. There is one part in track 2 at 1:00 she says “see” but it sounds like “she”. It’s not sibilant it’s just her pronouncing it with an accent. Track 2 also listen for tambourines in time with and behind the cymbals of tbe drum kit. Also the first time her voice comes in on track 2 have the volume up up up and listen for any midrange breakup as there is some dynamics there as she accentuates the word “ when living”.

Enjoy! It’s an incredibly produced album. Hope that helps.

FYI I always find my m60s sound remarkably better out in the room and with well powered solid amplification. I don’t know your room but that’s what I have to offer. I bet you’re having fun with both pair of speakers! I’m rooting for the Axioms of course but Paradigm is no slouch! May the best tower win.

Ps. Be sure to do some long sessions as well like a couple hours or more nonstop at moderate spl without cherry picking songs. Kinda like a listening fatigue test. And a low volume test too at night.

We want details!!!!
Have fun!!

Thanks Kodiak for the advice!! I have listened more since that post & will try room correction this Saturday to see if that it(ARC) helps the M60's more then the 800F's can not see how that would be the case...but will do that have listened for 2 hrs to all kinds of music & radio stations & the same result keeps coming up while the M60's do reach deeper in every other way(high's,Mid's,) the 800F are a major step above them!!So given the outcome on Monday which is decision day it is looking more & more like the Axiom's are going back.

Now my Anthem video switching is acting up grrr...using Roger's cable & when I shut off the AVR my Roger's remote is useless can not switch channels or anything for that matter for about 10 mins after shutting it off.....getting pissed at this wondering if made a mistake with the Anthem and should have gotten a Marantz 6015???

Yeah, that's what I said a few weeks ago. The 60 would be challenged in the mids and highs compared to the 800 but would do well in the lows.

I'm curious though about higher volumes. I know the woofers on the 800 will distort but I'm curious about the mid and tweeter.

And what about soundstage and the ability of speakers to disappear?

I'll never buy Anthem.

It was closer than I thought it would be. I don't really know what to make of Paradigm anymore, they talk the talk of using NRC research, but seem to deliver products that are voiced for rooms with hardwood floors (I'm not kidding).

Still, it was a fair fight. I'm not capable of doing these comparison tests anymore now that I have an AVR instead of an A/B switching receiver or integrated amp. I was able to A/B my last significant purchase, and I knew within a minute which was the better speaker.

Wondering if should get a Marantz Cinema 50(replacement for 6015) have heard a Denon 3700 sounded flat to me & reading not just my experience.Marantz has a more full sound.Do I think all amps sound the same no...but is there a large difference no to that too!!

I don't know what Paradigm's product strategy is. Each product family appears to have a different spinorama recipe. That doesn't seem right to me. The holy grail is to hit on a recipe that lab and market data tells you is right and then replicate that recipe for every speaker family as best as you can. That's what Axiom has done and that's why the soundstage and imaging for every one of its speakers is similar. Where they differ as one moves up in price is performance rather than functionality.

This by the way is why I hold Ian in such high regard. It takes a certain constitution, a depth of faith, to believe in the science of spinorama and work on understanding the psychoacoustic impact of the wrinkles in every curve. And to work at it over a 30 year period (the first 10 years were cutting his teeth years), refining over and over with history, new lab data and market feedback as guides, is remarkable. Who else in the industry has done that? A good question of course is when does the law of diminishing returns kick in? As I said many times on these boards, I feel that law kicked in with v4. It's maybe as far as one can take the Millenia architecture that kicked off the "M" line.

Getting back to Paradigm, maybe it hasn't figured out the recipe and is experimenting with different recipes to get market data. Maybe it had the recipe and it left as folks walked out the door. Or maybe the recipe can't be defended for whatever reason.

Did Paradigm ever have a spinorama recipe to govern all its products? Did all its speakers at one time sound similar in terms of soundstage and imaging?

Anyway, someone appears to have done very well with the 800F. Maybe that spinorama can act as a good reference recipe for Paradigm.

Edit: BTW, the Bryston line definitely has a tweaked recipe. It strives for a horizontal listening window curve instead of downward tilting.