Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Out with the old and in with the new

After nearly 12 years with my M80v2 and QS8v2, it was time to give v4 a chance at my fronts and surrounds. So onto M5HPs and QS10HPs. I'm giving separates a shot as well with an ADA-1000-3. If the M5HPs don't work out, there's always the M100s I suppose.

My gratitude goes out to Craig Chase for discussions over the last year about soundstage and to Andrew and Ian for helping me with the decision. They listened to my needs and gave me great answers and advice.

Someone will be very happy with my M80s and QS8s.

Mojo - Looking forward to reading your impressions of the new speakers. Congratulations on making the step up!

Very nice, Mojo! It'll be nice to hear your impressions. I ordered a pair of M5HPs myself with the recent promotion (from the Factory Outlet to save even more). I would have ordered two pairs if I had the disposable income at the time, just so I'd be set with direct-firing speakers for my eventual move to a full Atmos setup.

I'm going to try one of the M5HPs briefly as a center in place of my current VP180 just to see if I want to return to a vertical center. I used to use an M22, and while I felt pretty satisfied with it, I did notice the extra heft in the VP180.

Also interested in what you have to say about the ADA. I have a 1500-4 to run my LFRs and a 1000-4 with one channel not being utilized to run my center and two of the surrounds. I've been really happy with how clean they sound at any volume level I've tried, but my experience is limited to A/V receiver amplification and a brief amount of time with an Emotiva amp.

Thank you, Charles. You know I'll report back about my thoughts.

Ooh, wonder when they will appear in the refurb store? What colour were they? If cherry, I might pick them up :-)

That said, my trade-in's haven't appeared yet in the store or maybe they were picked up quickly :-)

Standard black oak. I expect they'll be back sometime in November. I put the order in for the M5s two days ago. BTW, yesterday I received an automated email telling me exactly what state my order was in and who's working on it.

It's my first experience with these emails, too. Yesterday, my M5HPs were in quality control, and today they were in the packaging stage. I assume they'll ship tomorrow!

Axiom is building a factory with a drone army. Ian will become the Bezos of all things audio.

So far, according to the automated e-mails, the drone named Moe has been working on my ADA, Mike on my M5 and John on my QS10.

The on-line store worked very well this time around and flawlessly applied all the right discounts for trade-in, etc.

The user manuals are so much better as well. It's great to see all this progress Axiom is making on so many fronts.

... and this guy is working on the extension out back of the current factory:

HRP-5P



I was surprised how smoothly the online store handled everything... not because it had been bad in the past but because I had never thrown such a wierd combination of trade-ins and new orders at it before.

My cyber-security training re-programmed my brain neurons to never click on a link like your HRP-5P above. Especially since that link came from a tough-talking psychopath whose best friend is a .44 Magnum.

The only thing I was disappointed about was the lack of a choice in the trade-in drop-down for Totem Dreamcatchers.

Trust me, I know what I'm doing...

Always shoot first and ask questions never!

awesome news!

I got my M80v2 at about the same time you let the smoke out of your Emotiva with your M80s.

lol, funny never thought I'd get Emo again, I do have an A500 driving my M3 ceiling speakers for Atmos, not using one of its channels.

As someone who wanted floorstanders and 'settled' on in-wall M5HP's, curious to know what led you to make the switch. Is a single HP driver almost as good as dual non-HP's? When do you expect to receive your new speakers?

They're being packed but I also bought M3s for my living room and I told Deb I'm in no rush so she can send everything all at once. The M3s are in the early stages. Maybe I'll get everything including the QS10s, M5 stands and ADA-1000-3 in a couple of weeks.

I don't need high SPL. What I need is the wide and tall soundstage the M80v2 give me with greater depth and sharper placement of instruments in the soundstage. Discussions with Ian, Andrew and Craig Chase have led me to believe the v4 will give me all that. Andrew has told me the M5HP is a more refined speaker than the M80v2. Both Ian and Craig have told me v4 is a different presentation than v2. Craig has told me the soundstage is more accurate. The M5, being shallower, will allow me to place them even further from the front wall with the hope that the soundstage depth will shine. My only concern with the M5HP is preserving the width I now enjoy but I'll never know until I try them.

I said above I don't need more power. I don't listen loud. But that could be due to distortion in my Onk that is offensive to my ears. So I ordered the ADA to hear if there is any difference.

If I don't like what I hear, it will all go back. I'm not into audio to feed my ego. If it sounds amazing, I'll praise it far and wide like my 800v4 and 160v4.

That's great to hear! Really speaks to the awesome design of the M5HP. Very interested to see your thoughts on how they sound vs the M80v2 once you get everything set up.

Last I heard, John had started assembly on my 4 M3 in-walls. I'm really looking forward to a road trip within the next month to tour Axiom HQ and pick everything up!

I'd love to do that trip with you if I wasn't on the other side of the country.

Ah too bad. Should be a nice drive if I can do it before all the leaves fall.

I think distortion could very well be the culprit. I didn't enjoy my Onkyos near reference levels, but after getting separate amps, everything sounds clean, not harsh, as hard as I want to push it. I'm still paranoid about hearing loss, so I don't go crazy, but I feel like I'm getting the full theater experience. Honestly, it sounds better than any theater around here for my money.

So...what about those M5s, Charles?

I haven't tried them as my mains yet, or a single one as a center, so I can't give a true appraisal yet. They seemed more than adequate as side surrounds when I finished my rewatch of The Wire, however. I finally cracked open my Blu-ray box set, and besides looking really good, the audio was fun, too. Plenty of surround information coming through in city scenes, really felt like you were in the hustle and bustle.

I had to help a friend move today, and tomorrow I have to celebrate two other friends' birthdays, but I'm going to try to make time to try them as mains at least for a little while.

I've started my site acceptance test of all my v4 gear. I've got M80s, M5HPs, M3s and Totem Dreamcatchers, QS10HPs and QS8s all set up. I've got the ADA-1000-3, the Onk, a Yammie and a Pioneer dual mono block amp to power the gear.

The biggest surprise thus far has been the M3v4. As you all know, I heard the M3Ti a decade ago and hated it. But the M3v4...wow! Absolutely no problem getting loud in my 4,200 ft^3 space and the soundstage, imaging and clarity is simply outstanding! I've held the Dreamcatchers in high regard but the M3s are on an entirely different level in so many ways. Wow!

Having said that, it doesn't take a golden ear to hear how much more refined the mids are with the M5HP. Flight of the cosmic hippo sounds more cosmic through the M5 but not by much.

It's also easy to hear how much louder the M80v2 is but with more smearing. Anyway, I've only just started.

Awesome! So you're liking the M5HP's over the M80s? Tried the ADA-1000 yet?

I haven't touched the ADA yet.

The M5HPs are definitely more refined than the M80v2. I need to understand if the M80v2 are giving me something that is missing in the M5HP. If so, maybe I need to look at the M80v4 and M100. But I'm definitely not there yet. So far the M5HP is so good I wonder why anyone would need anything more.

I had a fem friend over whom I blind-folded (as I do with fem friends). She's seen and heard my M80s and Dreamcatchers before but had no idea I had all the speakers ready for comparison. After about a half hour of me switching cables and her listening, it was very obvious the Dreamcatchers were the worst of the bunch. She had a tough time between the M80v2, the M5HP and the M3v4. I put on Buble and she came to some rapid conclusions. The M80v2 and M3v4 were virtually indistinguishable. The M5HP had the best over-all balance, and soundstage (depth, width, height). She said she could easily pick out the images. I then took the blind-fold off and had her listen to the speakers without knowing which ones she had commented on when blind. She easily discarded the Dreamcatchers. She had a tough time picking a winner between the M80v2 and the M3 and found the M5HP to be the most optimum. At this time, she knew what speaker she was listening to.

All of this was done at very sane listening levels of a watt average. She's now actively thinking of buying M3s and was looking at all the finishing options. I found all of this interesting to say the least.

BTW, the backs of the M5HPs are 4 feet away from the front wall, they're 9 feet apart and 6 feet away from the side walls. I'm sitting 11 feet away on the diagonal and they are naked and pointing straight ahead.

I should mention all listening is done with the EP800 on.

Nice. Good to hear the M5HPs are working out.

I was also very impressed with M3v4s (to the point of being surprised, even though I have liked M3s for maybe 15 years) but agree the balance is even better with M5HP's.

One of my man-buds was over yesterday and while he didn't want to be blind-folded, he did agree to close his eyes. After running him through the same routine, he preferred the M5s, then the M3v4, then the M80v2 and finally the Dreamcatchers. His comments were similar to my fem-friend's. He was also quite shocked with the performance of the M3s given their size and the significant difference in presentation of the M5 and M3 compared to the others.

Pretty crazy that everyone prefers the M3s to the M80s. Have you tried the ADA1000 yet?

Keep in mind, the M3's are V4s vs V2 M80s. Listening levels are also important.

I can drive the M80v2 to 110dB and M3v4 to 105dB at 3' distance. Beyond those levels, I detect distortion with my Onk and dynamic compression. I sit 11' away and those levels are too loud for me (I had earmuffs on). The M3v4 sounds better than the M80v2 and just as full. It really is freaking amazing! If you can't afford the money or space for the M5HP, you can set up a great A/V system with the M3v4 and an EP500. An EP350 may even be enough. But once you hear the M5HP, you just can't go back to the M3. You don't even have to listen critically to hear the difference. These speakers put Totem, Polk, Klipsch, KEF to shame - they are audiophile quality with wide, deep, tall and accurate soundstage, sharp images and micro and macro dynamics. My ADA-1000 feedback will be coming soon.

Nice! My plan to use M3v4's for surround/Atmos duty sounds completely overkill now.

Not over-kill at all. There's a lot more coming out the surrounds than most think. Its just that tjey cant hear it because their gear sucks or they're deaf.

Those with QS4s or QS8s need to upgrade to QS10HPs. I had no idea what I was missing until I did. Wow!

I still like the idea of having full range speakers (or subs with hi level outputs and otherwise capable surrounds) used at every position.

The QS8s are pretty much full range. Audyssey crossed them over at 40Hz and I have usable bass well below that but I haven't quantified exactly how much. It's a very stark difference to the QS8s!

I've taken the M5s off their Axiom stand and replaced them with the M3v4. I haven't recalibrated yet.

They're 12'4" apart and I'm 12'4" away on the diagonal. The tweeters are about 5" below my ears. The M3 backs are 4' away from the front wall and sides are 6' away from the side walls. I'm seated 5' away from the back wall. The 800v4 is on and crossed at 80Hz. I'm at -15 on my Onk listening to Calcutta Blues by Brubeck on Spotify Premium.

The soundstage is wider than the speaker width. It's DEEEEP...deeper than my front wall...and appropriately tall - no difference in height compared to the M5 or M80v2. The drums are wayyyyy back there! Imaging is amazing! I can say that while the M5s disappear, the M3s disappear better! The mids and highs are not as crisp and transparent and the bass is slightly thicker than the M5 but over-all it's good - really good! The soundstage is soooooo much better than my M80v2.

I never thought I'd say all this about the M3. I'm wondering now if the M22v4 (which I've equally despised since I heard the M22Ti) would improve on the M3 while disappearing just like the M3 does. Are you reading this, Alan? I'm praising the M3. Can you freakin' believe it?

The builds are terrific BTW. The M5HP has a window brace, and a thermo-formed mid-woofer enclosure. Both have nicely laid out cross-overs and decent components, generous polyfill, excellent vinyl and heavy tweeters.

It's obvious that everything Axiom learned on the LFR, M100 and Model T has trickled down into the rest of the line. I think Axiom has really screwed themselves though. With the M3, M5HP and maybe the M22, who needs floor-standing speakers?

I would take the M3v4 over my M80v2 any day.

Listening now to I don't get it from The Trinity Sessions. Craig Chase was telling me what this should sound like but I could never achieve it with my M80v2. I hear the width, incredible depth and crisp imaging with the M3v4 as he said. No...I don't need LFRs with this. It's holographic enough for me.

Now I'm afraid to re-calibrate from the M5s to the M3s because I might lose this.

Listening to the 2005 remastered version of La Habanera...still on the M3v4. The truck in the beginning starts off on the extreme left and crosses the entire 24' stage seamlessly! Its walls of sound with each wall ahead of the other leading to believable and easily discernable layers of depth. The macro dynamics are all there; the microdynamics and air not so much as with the M5. There are no discernable speakers in the soundscape - just well-positioned and delineated vocals and instruments. All this from the M3s! My M80v2 could never do anything like this.

I re-calibrated and lost absolutely nothing in sound quality. I've listened to a few more tunes and without a doubt, the M5 resolves better across the entire frequency range. The M5 sounds more natural and you don't have to strain to hear how more natural it is. However, there does not appear to be a difference in the eerily holographic quality of the soundstage - both are the same in that regard. In fact, as I reported above, the M3v4 disappears better. I have to spend more time to understand if this is the way the M3s are positioned relative to the M5s - the M5 tweeter is at ear height while the M3 tweeter is 5" below.

Interesting... I found the M5HP's did a better job of handling very wide soundstage than M3v4's, at least with audio effects that put sound sources well outside the speaker locations...

old post

In that post you linked, you said:

"OK, that was interesting. No more testing different configurations yet, but played another few CDs while working. On Sheep from Pink Floyd's "Animals" I realized what was different with the sound...

Sheep opens with electric piano and sheep noises, followed almost immediately by bass guitar. The bass is sharply located in the center, while the electric piano has always sounded "out of phase" and smeared across the soundstage with most of the sound seeming to come from a bit outside the speakers.

With the new setup the electric piano was sharply located "over there", off to the right somewhere between 30 and 40 degrees, almost twice as far from the center in terms of angle as the right channel speaker. "

I've been making similar observations with the v4. I am still working on a final verdict between the M3v4 and the M5HP as far as soundstage is concerned.

Are you using a sub with your M3s?

My first experience with Axiom was love at first listen. A pair of M3Ti's, a Velodyne 10" sub, an Antique Labs MG15DT 5 watt per channel single end triode tube amp, Ah! Njoe Tjoeb tube output CD player and Maple Shade Golden Helix speaker wire ... audio bliss.

I read you didn't like your M3ti's 10 years ago. What amp/receiver were you using?

I tried a pair of M22Ti's with the 5 wpc tube amp, hated the M22s. Dragged them out recently to try with a ~30 wpc Harman Kardon tube amp which my father got in 1962. Wow! Sounded great!!

I'm sure the new M3s and M22s sound even better, but the Ti's sound great with the right amp.

I was using a Denon receiver with the M3Ti. I also have to say I heard the M3v4 drivers in the Air but I didn't like them for a multitude of reasons. But these M3v4 speakers...they're something else! They are not JUST for small rooms. They have no problem whatsoever in my 4200 ft^3 space. I have them almost 12.5 feet apart and I'm sitting 12.5 feet away on the diagonal and imaging and soundstage are outstanding!

I am using a down-firing Yammie with the M3s that I got for $50. It's very good for music. Whether you use the M3s or M5HPs for music, a sub makes a nice difference - particularly for the M3s. I also listened to them extensively with my beloved 800v4 in my main room and the blend required no tuning whatsoever.

I've set up an M3-based living room system that was on my mind for the last 5 years. I have the M3s 4 ft away from the front wall, 20" from the sides, 8 feet apart and the MLP 8 ft on the diagonal. I'm sitting well-away from the back wall; maybe too far because I'm in the middle of the room. I'm driving them with an old Denon that doesn't have room correction. I have a long way to go to tame the room. However, the v4 soundstage is unmistakable. It's nowhere near as spectacular as my main space but the depth, width, height and image focus is characteristically v4.

I shake my head with some of the comments on the boards that Axiom hasn't innovated. Axiom burned the midnight oil squeezing everything it could with the current architecture out of The Family of Curves. It shows on the v4.

The M5HPs have completely fulfilled my audio needs. They offer audiophile sound and an amazing value. The 800v4 is icing on the cake for music and with the 160v4 and QS10HP, they complete an A/V system. For the first time in almost 12 years, I can say my main A/V space has reached a point where nothing more needs to be done. This is both good and bad. Good in that it offers me the satisfaction I've struggled to achieve and bad because I was about to pack it all in and down-size to a condo so I can free up some cash. I can't possibly imagine living the rest of my life without this sound.

To take full advantage of what the v4 offers, a large room, wide spacing and placement well away from room boundaries is a must. I tried with the M80v2 for many years and could not achieve the soundstage and imaging I so easily got with the M5HP (and M3v4). If you don't have a large space, you will still hear a big difference in clarity, imaging and soundstage.

A big shout out to Serenity_then for his panels
and of course Ian for not only helping me but having the passion, patience and vision to continuously improve. Craig Chase helped me a lot as well to clarify my needs. Now I'm thinking about something I never thought I'd want - custom finishing. I love them so much, I want to dress them properly.

Like

I was up until 4 am with one of my fem-friends taking in concert DVDs, Spotify music and YouTube tunes. We just couldn't stop! The Eagles concert was incredible. I could never get it to sound right with my v2 system no matter what; bloated bass, no pop in the drums, wrong imaging, poor soundstage, distorted highs, unclear vocals, weak surround sound. That's all history now. Wow! Just WOW! I tried soooooo hard all night to find a weakness and could not. I'd say The Family of Curves was interpreted so incredibly correctly. It's all black magic and Axiom is the evil wizard weaving spells.

Awesome

Happy for you Mo

Glad the M5HP's are working out for you. I've been loving mine, especially lately when I dropped the Marantz receiver for a benchmark ahb2, using it in stereo mode. Very good match together.

Spiroh, that sounds like an amazing amp.

I was reading the review at the link below. At the bottom of page 1, the author refers to a song and piano that can be heard bleeding through headphones. I have no problem hearing these piano notes on my system via Spotify Premium on my Onk.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/benchmark-ahb2-amplifier/

Yeah not sure on that review. I had a Marantz SR6009 which is a pretty good receiver. Power isn't much different between the AHB2 and the receiver. In fact, I was concerned if the amp would have enough power which it does. But I wanted a fully balanced system so with the AHB2 I also am using a new DAC as well. DAC to AHB using xlr connections.

I spent the day with my buddy of 40 years yesterday. I told him I upgraded my system and he readily agreed to listen blind to 2.1. He is not into audio and only listens in his car or at venues. Some of his comments and behavior were interesting:

1. "The sweetest taboo": I can hear that rain way, way back there. She's singing in front of the rain. Holy sh!t is that what this song is supposed to sound like?
2. "Once I wished a tree upside down": He's right out front. Wait he's going around the back now. He's at the back and now coming around to the front again. This is incredibly clear.
3. "Train song": Oh wow! This sounds like Holly Cole. She's here isn't she? I just saw that train going across the room!
4. "Rosanna": OMG I've heard this song so many times but not like this.
5. "Colomb": This is like having 3d glasses but on your ears.
6. "Oxygen part IV": He was completely mesmerized with this one and had no idea it was supposed to sound like this. He was moving both arms to simulate what he was hearing.
7. "Oxygene spa version": He went totally limp on this one and said he just wants to float in the saturating bass.
8. "St. Louis Blues" by Wycliffe Gordon: He asked if I moved the side walls.
9. "Belkis queen of Sheba war dance": He was smiling at the illusion of drums way in the back on the left.

There were many other moments also. Before taking off the blinders, I asked him to point to the speakers. He couldn't other than to motion from one side of the room to the other and from the floor to ceiling. I asked him to estimate the size of the speakers and he said, "Big. Very big. Floor to ceiling and very, very wide". When he took the blinders off, he looked at the M5s and then hunted around the room. He finally said, "Is that it?". I said yup and he said no way. So I played some more and he was even more floored. He said this wasn't a sound system as much as a sound to image and emotion converter.

He was also very surprised by the size of the sub given the fact he couldn't localize it.

Are the songs mentioned all off a single album?

No. I was using Spotify Premium.

Ah

I could spend my precious life posting links if it pleases you.

I finally dialed the M3v4 into my living room. The soundstage is, like Willem Dafoe exclaimed in The Boondock Saints, "frickin' huuuuge!" It's well beyond speaker boundaries with lots of aid from lateral reflections.

They're 12.5 feet apart, well away from room boundaries and the MLP is 12.5 feet away. Now get this: toe-in is extreme so they cross 2 feet in front of my face. Don't ask me the theory behind this. It's the only way I can get them to stage good in this totally crappy room. I have to be careful with the volume because I end up exciting all kinds of room effects. I can get it more than loud enough for my needs though and I've discovered my ears and the 17 year-old Denon give out long before the M3s do.

Later this week I'm gonna try the M5s in this room.

I just replaced the M3v4 with the M5 in my 2000 ft^3 living room. The soundstage width doubled! The clarity is off the charts. And to my surprise, no sub is needed except maybe for bass management.

Andrew did an amazing job on that v4 tweeter. I swear that thing has a constant magnitude radiation pattern of 180 degrees. And the highs sound so much better on the M5 than the M3. Everything sounds better.

Once you hear the M5, there's no going back. I hope listeners aren't shoving this gift from the audio gods into cubby holes and cabinets.

Awesome news Mojo.
Here in Vancouver we've got a shop called HIFI center I've been drooling over the Bryston model of the M5 for a couple years. They're totally beautifully made.
Happy to hear you're so taken with yours.

Cheers Brendan.

I'd really like to put both in a room and hear the difference.

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Active M5's...

The M100s are here! Magnificent monoliths of music and movie mellifluence!!

To cool
Anticipating your follow up. Hope they're as great as suspected.

I never expected them to be any better than the M5s in my environment. I won't have feedback against the M5s for a few days. I'm comparing them against the M3v4 in my living room.

The M100s are 5dB more sensitive than the M5HP. That means my Onk has to deliver almost 4 times less power to achieve the same SPL as the M5s. As you might imagine, the images from the M100 are much larger than the M5. The M100s are also more articulate and unveil more details (microdynamics) than the M5. Soundstage is much taller and enveloping. The jury is out on depth of the soundstage compared to the M5. They can handle everything my Onk throws at them without any hint of strain. There is no way I can bring them to their limits in my 4200 cu. ft. room without evaporating my eyeballs and melting my brain. My Onk would certainly run out of steam.

Set-up was very difficult and took me more than 8 hours to optimize their location. If I wasn't such a manly-man I'd be all sore and kinked up from moving these behemoths...lol! I tried right up against the front wall with various combos of ports plugged and open and calibrated with Audyssey and no dice - the bass was completely overwhelming. Audyssey XT32 gave up. Their optimum location is 10 feet apart with the MLP 14 feet away. Their backs are 3 feet from my front wall. Their sides are 5.5 feet away from the side walls. All 6 ports are wide open. They point straight forward. They are crossed to the 800v4 at 80Hz and Audyssey is engaged. Without Audyssey, the bass is out of control in my room even with ports plugged. In this location and configuration, their dispersive properties shine and they disappear. Jean Michel Jarre's Oxygene is simply astounding for example. The MLP is wrapped in the front, above and on the sides with an immersive bath of sound. At various times throughout the song, you are very easily fooled into believing sound is coming from and disappearing into both of the entire side walls. This is not just a small portion of the side walls as with the M5s but an entire section of my side walls from top to bottom! It's as if there is a sound circuit between my walls and the M100s; sound is sourced from the M100s, sinks into the walls, comes back out of the walls and into the 100s. I can hear the same effect from the M5s but the magnitude is nowhere near the same. The circuit is "thinner". There is also a myriad of detail in this song (as others) that I can't hear through the M5s. Another example of this microdynamics capability is Unsquare Dance. With the M5, you know two pairs of hands are clapping but the "real hands" are missing. Not so with the M100 - the hands are so very clear and you can hear exactly what you'd hear if those hands were in the room. In fact, if you close your eyes, you'd never know they are not real. With the M5s, they are small hands. With the M100, they are the correct size. On that same track, there are nuances in the drumsticks that are simply not heard with the M5s...and the drumsticks are as large as real life.

I'm unsure at this time whether I like the M100s better than the M5s in my room. While the M5 carefully paints images at or behind the plane of the drivers, the M100's plethora of drivers spray images that are large and overwhelming not only on the soundstage but also "into the room". My 21 foot room width is completely immersed to the point where I can't see the space between images. This blackness between images is something I cherish in the M5s. Two of my friends love the M100s though. I am very unsure about it and my son is on the fence. Since hearing them, one of my friends has been hounding me the last 2 days to buy my M100s which I find very surprising because he doesn't have the room and isn't in the market for speakers.

The M100 is better than the M5 as the M5 is to the M3. But I feel as if the M100 is too big even for my large space. I feel as if I want the carefully painted images on the soundstage with the sense of space in between them like the M5s but the microdynamics of the M100 and larger images. I'd also like the sensitivity of the M100s. Maybe I just need M100s with a larger room. Or maybe fully active M5HPs will be more practical and further improve on an already amazing large bookshelf design.

Build quality BTW is excellent and very solid. I was surprised to see they are filled with poly to the point where you can't see through the ports and into the cabinet. I suppose that's not too surprising when one thinks of the acoustic activity in that large cabinet and the need to suppress it. BTW, Fed Ex grossly mishandled them to the point where the packaging was punctured and badly ripped up. They were lying crossed on top of each other and on top of other smaller boxes and it's a good thing I met the driver as he opened the door. He was trying to kick them off the truck with absolutely no thought of what was in them. Fortunately the build quality and packaging protected them and even if it didn't, you can count on Axiom to take care if problems.

A great big "Thank you" goes out to Ian and Andrew for taking time out of their very busy day to autograph each one.

Tonight was the first time I sat back to enjoy the M100s alone. I made some layout changes. They're now 9.5 feet apart from center to center, backs 34.5" from the front wall and the MLP is 12.5' away. So I am now receiving more of the direct sound.

Wow, wow, wow! The imaging is now very clear yet still big. The images in Oxygene are now the same as the M5 but fuller, larger, more present and on three different front to back layers. One layer is about 3 feet in front of the drivers, another just behind and the third almost at the front wall. The one ahead of the drivers is thick and is the wall effect I described in my last post. I can hear effects leaving one layer and entering another. The soundstage depth is at least equal to the M5s. In Belkis Queen of Sheba war dance, the drum appears to the immediate outside of the left M5 at the plane of the front wall. With the M100, that same drum is 5.5' to the left of the speaker and behind my front wall! On St. Louis Blues by Wycliffe Gordon, that trumpet is waaaaaay over to the left and just as airy as the M5. All these effects are bigger than the M5 and this is at -20dB on the dial so it's nowhere close to loud. Even though there's a space of more than 5.5' to the sidewalls, that space fills with sound when called for.

I would have never believed greater clarity and detail over the M5 was possible. I can easily push them to 0dB (reference level) with no compression which I can't do with the M3v4, M5 or M80v2. While that sounds amazing, my ears can't take it for more than a minute. This is no word of a lie or exaggeration, on some tracks I hear sound behind me. And the highs with the multiple drivers are even better than the M5 which again I thought wouldn't be possible.

There is simply no reason now to entertain the M5s any longer for my main room. The M5s will replace the M3v4 in my living room. The M3s will be traded in for either an EP400 or 500 to replace the yammie sub in the living room for 2.1 music duty only.

I just finished listening to the remastered version of radioactivity by Kraftwerk. There are lots of psychoacoustic effects in there but the coolest one had me checking if my right surround had somehow turned on. 6 feet ahead of the right speaker about a foot lower than where the ceiling meets the side wall, there's a decaying cymbal-like sound shooting forward. I'm pretty sure if my QS10 wasn't there, the effect would keep on travelling to the back. This is 5.5 feet to the right of the M100 and -25dB. When I turn up the gain, the effect remains the same size but just gets louder as if there's a pseudo speaker there. Very cool!

Cool Mojo!

Like James Blake?

Life round here
Limit to your love

Etc.

Spooky cool stuff

I'll check that out.

BTW, Ian told me with the exception of the dynamic capability, they are like the M5s. That is so not true! I'm so glad I tried them out for myself and took the time to set them up as properly as I possibly can. I can't imagine how much better they'd sound with your tools, knowledge and fancy gimmicks...lol!

Ian insists the LFRs are on a completely different level and I just can't imagine that - like I couldn't imagine anything being better than the M5s...lol!

Would love to hear them! Out of reach for me price wise. Would need 3 plus amps.... 10K.....

But I'm sure they are fantastic!

Maybe in March if all works out. Then you can tell your customers what real speakers sound like. (:

Did you go for the HP version?

The LFR1100s, M100s, M5s and QS10s come with HP drivers. I have an HP driver and a v4 tweeter adorning my coffee table and I pay homage to them daily.

If you are crossing at 80hz check out the song The Hills-The Weeknd at reference

70hz to 46hz and repeat. Chest to gut rotation.

That's a very cool effect. I tried it in the living room where I have the M5s and the Yammie sub set up. Now all my stuff on the wall is on the floor and my ears are fried. I don't dare try it with the 800.

Well...couldn't resist. I played this on the 800 which is in my main system. I just couldn't take it up to reference level because it was too loud and started making me nauseous. All I heard was tight, smooth bass and, as usual, I couldn't localize the 800. All my stuff downstairs stayed put because it's glued to the wall but upstairs didn't fare so well. I need to screw everything down on my Weapons Wall.

Lol

I want M5s and Axiom sealed subs in all my rooms, my car, my van and on my face.

Yeah, its a pretty insane track -one that almost any decent sub can shine on. I was able to hit 109.5db C weighted at MLP, which is where I have my volume governor limited...... The EP800s would be a lot of fun.

The sustained Bass hits are 2 octaves wide (super low Q) so you really get a strong pressure wave from them. I would suspect in almost any room.

Clean Clean Clean. But my hearing is important....

With large displacement subs you should be able to break windows with this song in a car. Detach Retinas?

I found out again today just how important a good amp is. I've been pretty happy with my living room M5 and yammie sub driven through my 17 year old Denon. The bass wasn't the best but I figured the 500 I ordered would clean that up. The imaging and soundstage wasn't as terrific as my main system but I chalked that up to the room.

I decided to replace the Denon with my 9 year old Pioneer Elite A9 that was driving my Dreamcatchers and leave the sub out. That was 3 hours and more than 4 playlists ago.

I now have a smile on my face that won't go away. The images are razor sharp and soundstage width is wall to wall and 5 feet away from speaker boundaries - equal to my main system. Depth is there but not like my main system. Bass is deeper and tighter, mids are clearer and highs crisper. I hear two things on this system that I don't hear with my M100s, 800 and higher powered Onk: far more nuanced microdynamics/detail and more pop in the bass. I'm hearing stuff I've not heard before and it's significant. It's very satisfying emotionally. This tells me even though my Onk is beefy, it's not articulate enough.

I've said before the M5s need a sub for music but I take that back. What they need is good electronics. I don't need that 500 now.

Deb already credited me for the 500. Yahoooo! I'll put the money towards active speakers when available.

Nice that you can put the money toward an active system, but I'm surprised it made that much of a difference. I've been thinking of going with a preamp-processor again when I do my next big round of upgrades. I had an Integra at one point, but I've been through a couple of Onkyo receivers since then before settling on a Marantz, though this one was always intended to be temporary, too. I'm leaning hard toward the Anthem AVM 60, just based on how much people on here have loved the equivalent receivers, with Nick really loving ARC. Ian has me sold on trading up to active LFRs when they're released, so I'll get whatever amps he recommends matching to them, and use the amps I already have for the remaining speakers, which means adding an extra channel to the ADA1500 to power the center speaker.

You are surprised and I am shocked. All these years we've been telling each other all electronics are the same, as long as their power is rated equally and frequency response is flat then they all sound the same blah blah blah. That may be true for v2 speakers but not v4. V4 is so well designed that you can hear the difference between an electronics engineering team that designed for functionality only vs. functionality AND performance. And you don't need golden ears.

Axiom still says on all their product pages that all you need is an onk or yammie to drive their speakers. While that's true, I think their customers are better served being told that a heightened listening experience can only be achieved by allowing v4 to reach full potential through high fidelity, pristine electronics.

BTW, Anthem is a great choice for well-engineered gear. I've looked into their people and what they're doing and I am impressed.

The worst part of all of this is that I'll have to drop my Spotify Premium and go with Tidal. I have a Pioneer D6 CD player and I've been comparing Spotify against CDs and there are definitely differences. I can't hear these differences with my PS3 and Onk.

I can definitely hear the difference between FLAC streamed from my PC and Spotify Premium on most speakers/headphones, but more so on v4s.

I think you're also younger than me so your ears and likely brain are both better.

I've been listening to Tidal master level quality. I can't hear a difference on every song. Those I consider to be HQ recordings come in with more depth and width. The bass is also oh so slightly more nuanced.

I've absolutely been addicted to listening to sax and brass on the v4. The M5s are so amazing upstairs and then I go downstairs and remind myself that even though the M5s are 99% of the way there, that 1% from the M100s is so difficult to accept as a want rather than a need.