I don't think I have ever seen a full writeup of your experiments with centers Dean. I am very happy that I bought the M2s for centers.
Just for you Fred.
Also see (if your really bored)
Comparing Speaker Configurations Ok time for another installment of Dean needs to get a life.
I’ve been nitpicking these speakers for several years and developed and hear for hearing their differences. I’ve also identified movie and music passages that highlight these differences for testing. So what I report here besides just being my opinion are things, unless otherwise noted, most people would never notice during normal use.
I just did an A/B/C test of a M80/M22/VP150 center channels and a separate test of Audyssey vs “Pure Audio” or whatever Onkyo calls it.
For the center comparison I turned off Audyssey and set the crossovers of all speakers to 80Hz. My center channel is 10.5’ away and the mains are 11.5’ from the center of my seating. Although I could do a 4-way test with my switch if felt stacking all three speakers would put one of them way to high so I did 2 separate A/B tests sitting in my listening positions with the switch.
First I checked the SPL levels. Using the M80 as reference the VP150 at the same setting was .5dB lower and the M22 was .5dB higher at the sweet spot. Sweeping across all three seats both the M80 and M22 deviated less than .5dB. OTOH, the VP150 deviated in a range of 4dB across all three seats (about 8’ apart). The high point (1dB higher than the sweet spot) was 1’ to the left of the sweet spot while the low point (3dB lower) was in the right seat. The left seat was only (2.5dB lower).
I used all the usual stuff I’m already familiar with (Star Wars III, LOTR FOTR, Jethro Tull Live at Montreux 2003, and a well mastered Juice Newton stage performance). Probably not fair but then it wasn’t a blind test and since I’ve already trained myself on what to listen for I figured it wouldn’t matter. Actually did notice some new things though. As a reference for fidelity I also checked everything on my Sennheiser HD600s.
M80 vs VP150 (horizontal)
Male voices sound deeper (congested or chesty) on the VP150 vs the M80. Very noticeable in at the beginning of Star Wars III when Obi Wan and Anakin are talking to each other from their fighters. Also in LOTR FOTR when entering the Mines of Moria Gandalf is talking while walking off screen right and the pitch of his voice rises. Ironically this “chestyness” sometimes sounds “better” but not true to the source.
The soundstage for the VP150 is wider but less precise than the M80. This can be a nice effect for movies but I found it bad for music. Also something I notice for the first time the VP150 while wider lacked the depth or separation of sounds of the M80. In LOTR FOTR when Galadriel pours water into the “mirror,” on the VP150 I hear it but all the sound…her voice and the water pouring…are coming from the screen and the pouring just sort of tapers off. On the M80 I can hear her talking from the screen while the water pouring is coming from out in front of her voice they way it looks. And instead of the sound sort of tapering off I hear each distinct drop of water along with her voice. Later when the Balrog is rising out of a pit behind the fellowship roaring that’s mostly what I hear on the VP150. On the M80 I can distinctly hear the fellowship’s footfalls and even cloths rustling as they run toward the camera. The best analogy I can make is the difference between watching “The Fifth Element” up-converted vs Blu-ray. The first seems great until you switch to the latter.
Now for the bad news. Moving off center the VP150 became very “phasey” and directional. Sitting in the left or right seat the VP150 sounded like the sounds was coming out of a tunnel focused at the center seat and at the sides I’m just catching what wrapped around the corners. I hate to say it but this is the worst I’ve heard it sound. Not sure why but it never sounded this bad in either room of my apartment. OTOH, the M80 sounded the same across all the seating. Perhaps I’m just getting so use to the M80 center that alternatives are sounding progressively worse by comparison. Another possibility is that during all previous testing I had curtains on the walls. So I will revisit the VP150 center once the curtains are up. I’d be interested in knowing how the VP100 sounds in this regard.
M80 vs VP150 (vertical):
Exactly the same as above except both the “wall-of-sound” effect disappeared and the “phaseyness” was gone when moving off center.
M80 vs M22:
The M22 sounded almost exactly like the M80. The M80 sounds a little fuller in the mid and upper bass while I think the M22 actually does the midrange and highs just a little better than the M80. Maybe just a side effect of lower bass.
Audyssey vs “Pure Audio:”
I was so impressed that Audyssey hadn’t make my speakers sound like crap this time I hadn’t done any serious listening until now. Have to say I like what it’s doing to the spatial nature of surround sound effects and taming the bass. However, I now noticed how much it’s rolling off the top end. There a very noticeable loss of ambiance with Audyssey on vs. off. It also takes a little bit of the edge off when there is sibilance on the recording. However, when comparing the M80s to the HD600s the sibilance is that same.
Conclusions:
The VP150 and Audyssey do not IMO equal high fidelity. While the VP150s wall-of-sound effect has some plusses for spreading out the center channel and the “chestyness” has an appeal…the off center “phaseyness” is a deal breaker. For movies the tonal difference and the less precise soundstage would not likely be noticeable w/o an A/B comparison unless one had already learned what to listen for. However, for music the soundstages of the M80 and M22 are clearly superior to the VP150.
Audyssey definitely helps the surround effects seem more “holographic” and tightened up the bass from my EP500 at the cost of a significant loss of ambience in music.
Cheers,
Dean
Afterthought:
I also compared the M80 crossed at 40Hz (where the receiver set it) to the M22 and VP150 crossed at 80Hz.
